I'm trading in my 03 hobie getaway this week and was trying to decide on an 04 H 170 and a 2001 Capri 16, both at the same dealer, both on trailers. Wife got nervous and wet on the hobie so hobie gotta go. I do inland lake sailing and am trying to decide between the two mainly because their are at the same dealer and he will take my trade. Understanding of course that the Capri is a fixed keel, does anyone have any experience with both to give me some performance and other factors for my comparisons. Thanks
Hunter 170 vs Capri 16
- Thread starter bobby17657
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H170 vs. C16
Bobby, I own a 170 and haven't even ever sailed a Capri 16 (Catalina?) but I will bet the 170 is faster but that the C16 is more stable. If the C16 you're looking at is one of Catalina's fixed keel models, then the C16 will definitely not freak your wife out like the 170 could! The 170 is more responsive I'd be willing to bet just on instinct (having not sailed the C16). The 170 accelerates like the dinghy equivalent to a new C6 Corvette when hit with a sudden puff. It's more of a performance dinghy than a family daysailer. That said, the 170 gets the adrenaline (and the Levo-gauge) going without hesitation when breezes suddenly freshens. The 170 can probably be pushed to capsize at-will in 15mph breezes and above (if one's into dunking a large daysailer and its passengers/contents). I've freaked my wife out (and myself, for that matter) on several occassions on our 170. Haven't flipped her though, and "plan" not to. If you really want a rock-solid feeling of well-being at all times (well, most of the time), you might look more seriously at the C16. But if you want a boat that gets more "pretty boat!" comments at the ramp, is easier to swim from (open transom), provides power, speed and exilleration, go with the h170. But oh, don't forget to have reef points put in that main for heavy breeze days! Mike G. s/v Lil Sport- Alachua, FL
Bobby, I own a 170 and haven't even ever sailed a Capri 16 (Catalina?) but I will bet the 170 is faster but that the C16 is more stable. If the C16 you're looking at is one of Catalina's fixed keel models, then the C16 will definitely not freak your wife out like the 170 could! The 170 is more responsive I'd be willing to bet just on instinct (having not sailed the C16). The 170 accelerates like the dinghy equivalent to a new C6 Corvette when hit with a sudden puff. It's more of a performance dinghy than a family daysailer. That said, the 170 gets the adrenaline (and the Levo-gauge) going without hesitation when breezes suddenly freshens. The 170 can probably be pushed to capsize at-will in 15mph breezes and above (if one's into dunking a large daysailer and its passengers/contents). I've freaked my wife out (and myself, for that matter) on several occassions on our 170. Haven't flipped her though, and "plan" not to. If you really want a rock-solid feeling of well-being at all times (well, most of the time), you might look more seriously at the C16. But if you want a boat that gets more "pretty boat!" comments at the ramp, is easier to swim from (open transom), provides power, speed and exilleration, go with the h170. But oh, don't forget to have reef points put in that main for heavy breeze days! Mike G. s/v Lil Sport- Alachua, FL
170 hull cracking
Thanks for the response, I presumed the Catalina 16 would be more stable but didn't know if it would be a great deal slower then the 170. I really do like the looks, the portability and versatility of the 170 and was leaning that direction. The C 16 will be a bit more weight to trailer, may need to use the Yukon as opposed to the diesel car, and it does have the keel to deal with in unfamiliar lakes,, however I had some concerns about the "fun" side of the 170 and have been reading some turtle concerns. I went though unable to right issue with the Hobie getaway and can’t repeat that nightmare. Also had heard that some of the early 170s' had hull crack problems. In fact the first 170 I looked at was an 04 replacement for a 98 and I havn't heard if that problem was fixed.
Thanks for the response, I presumed the Catalina 16 would be more stable but didn't know if it would be a great deal slower then the 170. I really do like the looks, the portability and versatility of the 170 and was leaning that direction. The C 16 will be a bit more weight to trailer, may need to use the Yukon as opposed to the diesel car, and it does have the keel to deal with in unfamiliar lakes,, however I had some concerns about the "fun" side of the 170 and have been reading some turtle concerns. I went though unable to right issue with the Hobie getaway and can’t repeat that nightmare. Also had heard that some of the early 170s' had hull crack problems. In fact the first 170 I looked at was an 04 replacement for a 98 and I havn't heard if that problem was fixed.
Running aground and turtling
Bobby, You're right- the 170 has been alleged by some in this forum who've actually turtled it to be very hard to right once all the way turtle-- as in impossible without a powerboat nearby to assist. It's ironically quite stable (apparently) when turned upside down (those wide, rounded gunwales no doubt give it much buoyancy when turned turtle). Speaking of Hobies, you might consider installing a football on the masthead if you get the 170, this basically prevents the 170 from turning turtle when capsized. Exploring unfamiliar lakes with the C16 keel is a factor to consider. I ran my 170 slightly outside a daymarker in the intercoastal waterway just east of St. Augustine once and grazed the seaweed and perhaps even bottom, but the 170's centerboard just retracted and I was able to get the heck out of there without running afowl. A keelboat would have hung up completely. Now granted that's operator error ;o) but it's still something to put on the table. I've had one hull crack appear on my '99 170 (just outside of the port jib camcleat swivel)-- I drilled a tiny hole at the origin and termination of the little crack and it hasn't grown. I'll take the fun of the 170 over this minor design flaw anyday (so long as the thing doesn't fall apart on me ;0) As far as speed goes, I think the Hunter hull is designed to be faster than the Catalina's...again this is a guess, but the below-waterline "lines" of the 170 are just so slick and slippery-- like a Laser. For a big white tub, it certainly takes off in a hurry. Yeah, the diesel car might not cut it on the C16-- but my compact '96 Mercury Mystique (standard transmission, 4-banger) makes easy work of our 170. I'd say the entire rig rolls down the road at 800 lbs. Any other thoughts? Mike
Bobby, You're right- the 170 has been alleged by some in this forum who've actually turtled it to be very hard to right once all the way turtle-- as in impossible without a powerboat nearby to assist. It's ironically quite stable (apparently) when turned upside down (those wide, rounded gunwales no doubt give it much buoyancy when turned turtle). Speaking of Hobies, you might consider installing a football on the masthead if you get the 170, this basically prevents the 170 from turning turtle when capsized. Exploring unfamiliar lakes with the C16 keel is a factor to consider. I ran my 170 slightly outside a daymarker in the intercoastal waterway just east of St. Augustine once and grazed the seaweed and perhaps even bottom, but the 170's centerboard just retracted and I was able to get the heck out of there without running afowl. A keelboat would have hung up completely. Now granted that's operator error ;o) but it's still something to put on the table. I've had one hull crack appear on my '99 170 (just outside of the port jib camcleat swivel)-- I drilled a tiny hole at the origin and termination of the little crack and it hasn't grown. I'll take the fun of the 170 over this minor design flaw anyday (so long as the thing doesn't fall apart on me ;0) As far as speed goes, I think the Hunter hull is designed to be faster than the Catalina's...again this is a guess, but the below-waterline "lines" of the 170 are just so slick and slippery-- like a Laser. For a big white tub, it certainly takes off in a hurry. Yeah, the diesel car might not cut it on the C16-- but my compact '96 Mercury Mystique (standard transmission, 4-banger) makes easy work of our 170. I'd say the entire rig rolls down the road at 800 lbs. Any other thoughts? Mike
hull cracks and all
Hi Bobby, I sailed the c-16 before I bought the 170. I can't speak to their relative sailing merits because the days were so different. I can say that the capri seemed much more stable. I thought the kids would love the cuddy on the Catalina, but the lake we sail on is quite shallow in places and that winged fin keel seemed like it would not be fun to drag out of the sand!! I liked the way the 16 sailed, I think it was probably slower, but I am not in a hurry to get anywhere. I have come to love my 170 the more I get to know it. As for the cracking. 1998 was a bad year for 170s. They went with a new formula for the plastic that BASF told them was much better. They only used that plastic for the one year, and they have been really great about standing behind their product (as evidenced by the '04 replacement that you are looking at, and the '04 replacement under a foot of snow in my back yard). good luck john
Hi Bobby, I sailed the c-16 before I bought the 170. I can't speak to their relative sailing merits because the days were so different. I can say that the capri seemed much more stable. I thought the kids would love the cuddy on the Catalina, but the lake we sail on is quite shallow in places and that winged fin keel seemed like it would not be fun to drag out of the sand!! I liked the way the 16 sailed, I think it was probably slower, but I am not in a hurry to get anywhere. I have come to love my 170 the more I get to know it. As for the cracking. 1998 was a bad year for 170s. They went with a new formula for the plastic that BASF told them was much better. They only used that plastic for the one year, and they have been really great about standing behind their product (as evidenced by the '04 replacement that you are looking at, and the '04 replacement under a foot of snow in my back yard). good luck john
Excellant advice all around.
Thanks very much, there were several excellent points to consider in the responses. I thought faster, like in 170 would be great and was the primary reason I sold my Macgregor M and bought the hobie. Fast was allot of fun until I turned the hobie over several times and even with the anti turtle bubble couldn't get it righted w/o a powerboat. That in an of itself was enough for my wife to get nervous and not enjoy the ride and when I went out by myself I to dreaded making a mistake and having to find help to right me by waving down a power boat. So,,, stable is a key point in this new relationship however I had heard that the c16 was a reasonably quick boat for its weight and size and figured it would be a good compromise. The C16 keel however is an important factor to consider as is the extra towing weight. One of the primary goals of this boat was to be able to visit other lakes and day sail, getting there cheaply with the 300D would be a nice benefit and the 170 would make that much easier. I'm going over in the morning and turning in the Hobie and will listen to the sails guy go through his pitch. Maybe the 170 with the mast float could be the answer?????????????. I have to say the easy water access is another plus as well. One other question has anyone put a small Bimini on a 170 yet?? Thanks again for the feedback
Thanks very much, there were several excellent points to consider in the responses. I thought faster, like in 170 would be great and was the primary reason I sold my Macgregor M and bought the hobie. Fast was allot of fun until I turned the hobie over several times and even with the anti turtle bubble couldn't get it righted w/o a powerboat. That in an of itself was enough for my wife to get nervous and not enjoy the ride and when I went out by myself I to dreaded making a mistake and having to find help to right me by waving down a power boat. So,,, stable is a key point in this new relationship however I had heard that the c16 was a reasonably quick boat for its weight and size and figured it would be a good compromise. The C16 keel however is an important factor to consider as is the extra towing weight. One of the primary goals of this boat was to be able to visit other lakes and day sail, getting there cheaply with the 300D would be a nice benefit and the 170 would make that much easier. I'm going over in the morning and turning in the Hobie and will listen to the sails guy go through his pitch. Maybe the 170 with the mast float could be the answer?????????????. I have to say the easy water access is another plus as well. One other question has anyone put a small Bimini on a 170 yet?? Thanks again for the feedback
try before you buy
Bobby, If you have the time, the patience, and access to open water (ours is still frozen), ask for on-the-water demos. If the dealer can't or won't, maybe you can locate current 170 and Capri owners, respectively, and persuade them to give you a ride. Might be a good idea to take your wife along, since her level of comfort will likely determine how much sailing you do together, or at all. For me, purchase of a 170 was a happy compromise between a NACRA catamaran and a divorce.
Bobby, If you have the time, the patience, and access to open water (ours is still frozen), ask for on-the-water demos. If the dealer can't or won't, maybe you can locate current 170 and Capri owners, respectively, and persuade them to give you a ride. Might be a good idea to take your wife along, since her level of comfort will likely determine how much sailing you do together, or at all. For me, purchase of a 170 was a happy compromise between a NACRA catamaran and a divorce.
Bobby if you are ever in So California.... I'll
you a ride on my Capri 16. Wonderfull boat with fix keel very very very stable (got caught in 30knot winds/5-6ft swells once in Tahoe). I think that the keel is 450lbs total wt of boat ?1300lbs, draft 2 1/2ft (wing keel). I have taken it to many lakes pulled by E320 Mercedes-any mid size car can pull it without problems. The trailor I have has a tongue extension that allows the auto to easily get the boat in/out of the water. Very strong boat .... I love it. abe
you a ride on my Capri 16. Wonderfull boat with fix keel very very very stable (got caught in 30knot winds/5-6ft swells once in Tahoe). I think that the keel is 450lbs total wt of boat ?1300lbs, draft 2 1/2ft (wing keel). I have taken it to many lakes pulled by E320 Mercedes-any mid size car can pull it without problems. The trailor I have has a tongue extension that allows the auto to easily get the boat in/out of the water. Very strong boat .... I love it. abe
Headed to St, Louis
To see a man about a boat, great help and I certainly appreciate all the advice and both sides of the coin.
To see a man about a boat, great help and I certainly appreciate all the advice and both sides of the coin.
More info on the C16
Bobby, Also, see: Sailboatowners.com or Catalinaowners.com -- they have nice reviews of the Capri 16 online. Interesting. The specs also indicate that the 170 carries more sail than the 16, although it carries no low ballast, so the Capri 16 will still be carrying full-sail when the 170's reefing (all things being equal). Something to think about... but I'll still take my 170 anyday ;o) Mike G.
Bobby, Also, see: Sailboatowners.com or Catalinaowners.com -- they have nice reviews of the Capri 16 online. Interesting. The specs also indicate that the 170 carries more sail than the 16, although it carries no low ballast, so the Capri 16 will still be carrying full-sail when the 170's reefing (all things being equal). Something to think about... but I'll still take my 170 anyday ;o) Mike G.
**170 vs C 16**
Hi Bobby, You might want to contact Danny Hartzell at [DRHartzell@Comcast.net] Danny has written some articles on the 170 and the comparison of the 170 to other boats including the Caprie 16. Before I bought my 170, Danny was kind enough to invite me down for a boat ride on his 170. I fell in love with the boat ! Danny is very knowledgeable about sail boats. He sails several different types of boats including some big ones ! We have started a sailing club, Hunter Daysailor Association of Southern California (H.D.A.S.C.) Danny is very help full. you can read one of his articles about the 170 by going to [dennis@sailing-obsession.com] and surfing through that web site. Good luck, Glenn
Hi Bobby, You might want to contact Danny Hartzell at [DRHartzell@Comcast.net] Danny has written some articles on the 170 and the comparison of the 170 to other boats including the Caprie 16. Before I bought my 170, Danny was kind enough to invite me down for a boat ride on his 170. I fell in love with the boat ! Danny is very knowledgeable about sail boats. He sails several different types of boats including some big ones ! We have started a sailing club, Hunter Daysailor Association of Southern California (H.D.A.S.C.) Danny is very help full. you can read one of his articles about the 170 by going to [dennis@sailing-obsession.com] and surfing through that web site. Good luck, Glenn
I turtlled my 170 !
Ive only been sailing about 1 year, the Hunter 170 is my first boat, I learned to sail on a Caprie 14-2. The 170 is rock solid in performance. Every time that I thought I was going to get blown over, the boat dumps the wind and comes back up, it also rounds up into the wind.... Now saying all that and knowing that I'm new to sailing HOW DID I TURTLED !........... I had winds of about 20-25, with about 2 feet of swells going down wind, the 170 was actualy "surfing" down these swells. I made a bad jib by not having the main pulled in tight, The boom slamed across and over I went !....... The 170 turtled almost imediately, With the wind and sea conditions I guess that helped it to turlte so fast..........and yes I had to have the Harbor Patrol right the boat...... Ive since foamed the mast which I beleive will stop or slow the water down enough from entering the mast. once capized it won't turle.......I have not test this out yet, I'm waiting for warmer water. I still love my Hunter 170.......... Glenn
Ive only been sailing about 1 year, the Hunter 170 is my first boat, I learned to sail on a Caprie 14-2. The 170 is rock solid in performance. Every time that I thought I was going to get blown over, the boat dumps the wind and comes back up, it also rounds up into the wind.... Now saying all that and knowing that I'm new to sailing HOW DID I TURTLED !........... I had winds of about 20-25, with about 2 feet of swells going down wind, the 170 was actualy "surfing" down these swells. I made a bad jib by not having the main pulled in tight, The boom slamed across and over I went !....... The 170 turtled almost imediately, With the wind and sea conditions I guess that helped it to turlte so fast..........and yes I had to have the Harbor Patrol right the boat...... Ive since foamed the mast which I beleive will stop or slow the water down enough from entering the mast. once capized it won't turle.......I have not test this out yet, I'm waiting for warmer water. I still love my Hunter 170.......... Glenn
Next saturday I'll be bring home a....
Well, In spite of its beauty and graceful lines the dealers and I both agreed that the Capri 16 was the boat for my "tender" sensitive wife. The Capri is a 2001 and the price was so good that even if I only keep it a couple years it was a good move for now. Thanks again for all your input, I really did want to buy the 170 for me,,,, but,,,, life is full of compromises and sailing with a spouse is better then sending a check to one any day.
Well, In spite of its beauty and graceful lines the dealers and I both agreed that the Capri 16 was the boat for my "tender" sensitive wife. The Capri is a 2001 and the price was so good that even if I only keep it a couple years it was a good move for now. Thanks again for all your input, I really did want to buy the 170 for me,,,, but,,,, life is full of compromises and sailing with a spouse is better then sending a check to one any day.
170 stability
I'll just throw my two cents in belatedly. Before I bought my 170, I read the comments about stability and was worried about the boat going over, turtling, etc. I contacted about twenty 170 owners, heard back from most of them, and all but maybe one considered the stability fears to be overblown. I've come to feel the same way. If you sail within your ability, this boat is actually quite stable. It is true that it is very responsive, but frankly that just makes you become a better sailor. Alsough I've sailed in winds as high as 15 mph, I generally find winds of 10 mph or less to be most enjoyable. I personally don't worry at all in winds up to 12-13 mph. And as long as you have SOME wind, this boat can ghost around nicely in the most gentle of breezes while others are reaching for the motor/paddle. Last year, my youngest was at the helm and we got hit during a tack with an unexpected gust....to make matters worse, my son had forgotten to uncleat the main. We did a complete 360, with all three of us diving to the center and my oldest quickly uncleating the main. During our first year with the boat, we made some dumb mistakes under stiff winds as well. In none of the cases did we go over even though I was sure we would. Not to say that the boat can't go over, and I have the Hobie float on top as insurance, but I was a Nervous Nellie before getting this boat and I now know that much of the fear was vastly misplaced. Again, as long as you stay within your abilities, sail within reasonable winds (and reef when necessary) there's no reason at all to be worried.
I'll just throw my two cents in belatedly. Before I bought my 170, I read the comments about stability and was worried about the boat going over, turtling, etc. I contacted about twenty 170 owners, heard back from most of them, and all but maybe one considered the stability fears to be overblown. I've come to feel the same way. If you sail within your ability, this boat is actually quite stable. It is true that it is very responsive, but frankly that just makes you become a better sailor. Alsough I've sailed in winds as high as 15 mph, I generally find winds of 10 mph or less to be most enjoyable. I personally don't worry at all in winds up to 12-13 mph. And as long as you have SOME wind, this boat can ghost around nicely in the most gentle of breezes while others are reaching for the motor/paddle. Last year, my youngest was at the helm and we got hit during a tack with an unexpected gust....to make matters worse, my son had forgotten to uncleat the main. We did a complete 360, with all three of us diving to the center and my oldest quickly uncleating the main. During our first year with the boat, we made some dumb mistakes under stiff winds as well. In none of the cases did we go over even though I was sure we would. Not to say that the boat can't go over, and I have the Hobie float on top as insurance, but I was a Nervous Nellie before getting this boat and I now know that much of the fear was vastly misplaced. Again, as long as you stay within your abilities, sail within reasonable winds (and reef when necessary) there's no reason at all to be worried.
170 stability- VERY well-said, Dick
Great comments, Dick, I was out sailing the 170 yesterday and both the ghosting and the strong puffs you mention came into play. I was surprised at the calms, as winter in Florida is usually the most reliable sailing. I was in flat calm one moment but suddenly the boat started moving, although no wind was seen on the lake: AWESOME! Then the wind piped up big-time around 4pm and my 170 took off. The wind grew to puffs of 15mph (and that's being conservative-- probably more like 17). One year ago (when I didn't know the boat at all yet and had 20 lbs. less, ahem, of my own gut ballast out on the rail) I would have about p'ed my pants being suddenly thrown into this with main and jib flying full. But I just pinched into the wind ever so slightly and spilled the main some when really heeling, and stuck to the windward gunwale of course and the 170 handled this exceptionally-well. It's ALL about knowing the boat and knowing your limits. Had the winds come up anymore I'd have rounded up and furled up the jib. The 170 sails OK on main alone in that heavy a breeze, and then reefed-main alone when things really get going--- although she doesn't point nearly as close to the wind. I LOVE the 170. Its responsiveness?, it's a teaching tool. All the fundamentals like reefing and changing center of effort by adjusting the centerboard come into play on this boat. Happy sailing to Bobby. You'll love the C16-- it comes down to the fun of sailing- the particular vehicle employed is of little consequence when you hit sailor's walhalla. Mike G.
Great comments, Dick, I was out sailing the 170 yesterday and both the ghosting and the strong puffs you mention came into play. I was surprised at the calms, as winter in Florida is usually the most reliable sailing. I was in flat calm one moment but suddenly the boat started moving, although no wind was seen on the lake: AWESOME! Then the wind piped up big-time around 4pm and my 170 took off. The wind grew to puffs of 15mph (and that's being conservative-- probably more like 17). One year ago (when I didn't know the boat at all yet and had 20 lbs. less, ahem, of my own gut ballast out on the rail) I would have about p'ed my pants being suddenly thrown into this with main and jib flying full. But I just pinched into the wind ever so slightly and spilled the main some when really heeling, and stuck to the windward gunwale of course and the 170 handled this exceptionally-well. It's ALL about knowing the boat and knowing your limits. Had the winds come up anymore I'd have rounded up and furled up the jib. The 170 sails OK on main alone in that heavy a breeze, and then reefed-main alone when things really get going--- although she doesn't point nearly as close to the wind. I LOVE the 170. Its responsiveness?, it's a teaching tool. All the fundamentals like reefing and changing center of effort by adjusting the centerboard come into play on this boat. Happy sailing to Bobby. You'll love the C16-- it comes down to the fun of sailing- the particular vehicle employed is of little consequence when you hit sailor's walhalla. Mike G.
John, any details on the 98 hull issues
John, do you have any details on the 1998 hull and the BASF comment that you made. Reason I am asking is because I am supposed to pick up my 98 170 next week. Any information or suggestions would be appreciated.
John, do you have any details on the 1998 hull and the BASF comment that you made. Reason I am asking is because I am supposed to pick up my 98 170 next week. Any information or suggestions would be appreciated.
98 hull issues
The place I found out about the cracking was at a sailboat shop in Stockton, MO called spurgeons port of call, on line I think its sell sail corporation. At any rate he had a new 04 with the 98 hull plate because he just had it replaced by hunter for the cracking. But he said he had two more complete mast and boom assemblies in the back from two other boats that had cracked???
The place I found out about the cracking was at a sailboat shop in Stockton, MO called spurgeons port of call, on line I think its sell sail corporation. At any rate he had a new 04 with the 98 hull plate because he just had it replaced by hunter for the cracking. But he said he had two more complete mast and boom assemblies in the back from two other boats that had cracked???
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