Help! 23.5 Rudder slips and creates drag

[CapeCodHunter]

I have owned my 1993 23.5 for 3 years..... and each time I take it out into even just light-to-moderate seas, the rudder rotates backwards a bit no matter how tight the wing nut is. When this happens, the drag on the tiller quickly becomes unmanagable. I'm forced to head upwind to take the pressure off the rudder so that I can quickly reach back and again tighten the wing nut. In moderate seas, this never works for more than 5 min before the lower rudder blade rotates again. Needless to say, I am not fond of having to execute this maneuver. In light seas, it's good enough for maybe 30 minutes before it starts to shift. Making matters worse, since there are a lot of shallow waters in Nantucket Sound where i sail, I am always fearful that I could damage the rudder if there's no play should it scrape the bottom.

Am I the only one with this problem? Is there something basic i am overlooking? I am dying to resolve this because it takes far too much of the fun out of the sail when I'm stuggling with the rudder so much of the time.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[Mulf]

Boats I have owned that had swing up rudders always had...

...a line attached to the leading edge of the rudder that was led up and over the transom where it could be wedged into a jam cleat attached to the bottom of the tiller to prevent the rudder from kicking up. I would not expect friction alone to keep it down. I suggest you look around at the local marina for examples.

 

[Charisma]

We have the h26, with the same rudder set-up as your boat. We have rubber between the rudder and the metal plates on either side that hold the rudder in place. This causes friction and stops the rudder from rising.

 

[CapeCodHunter]

Tying the rudder down?

...a line attached to the leading edge of the rudder that was led up and over the transom where it could be wedged into a jam cleat attached to the bottom of the tiller to prevent the rudder from kicking up. I would not expect friction alone to keep it down. I suggest you look around at the local marina for examples.

Thanks. Good point. I neglected to mention that I do indeed have that line and cleat on the tiller, but I have only used it to tie the rudder in the up position. If I cleated the line while sailing and hit bottom with the rudder I fear for the damage that could be done.....as the rudder would not be able to move....broken rudder, cleat ripped out of the tiller, or borken tiller.....or all of the above.

Is that not a valid concern?

Thanks for the reponse!

 

[peptobysmol]

In posts past, I have read that the line is, for lack of a better term, sacrificial. You don't want a beefy line but one that has a low tensile strength. The line on mine is cotton. I only do lake sailing so less corrosion, but I still wonder if I did ground my rudder just what would break. The rudder, cam cleat or the line?

The sad thing is I'd ground my swing keel first and then the rudder.
Waiting on the tax return to get a fishfinder/depth sounder.

 

[Mulf]

I sailed an O'Day 222 on the Barnegat bay...

..for 11 years. The Barnegat is generally shallow, so I understand your concern. I believe you can find a jam cleat that pops open under too much pressure, but what I did was to use a heavy shock cord type of line.
Never broke anything.

 

[Bobbi Ullinger]

We had the same problem with Kinship. After a few years of trailering, the rubber that's on either side of the rudder for friction became quite grimey (mostly with road dirt, I think) and lost most of its friction. To fix the problem, disassemble the rudder and clean the rubber and the top of the rudder with a degreaser such as Simple Green, and rinse it completely. Since doing this, and and making it part of the regular maintenance, I've not had this problem.

Also, I normally do not use the rudder uphaul to secure the rudder down, although it can be used, with a lot of force, to pull the rudder all of the way down.

Hope this helps.

 

[Brian M H23]

My 23 has almost no friction on the rudder. I have the downhaul line and a cam cleat that pops if too much force is applied. It works perfectly, even though it's 25 years old

 

[CapeCodHunter]

I think I'm too much of a chicken to tie down the rudder as I would feel like I'd be tempting fate. But, the couple references to rubber in the rudder "head" (?) makes me wonder......when I first got the boat in '07, I hired the rigging manager at a local marina to help me make it seaworthy. The original liner in the rudder head was in shreds and he replaced it with a poly-something-or-other.....definitely not rubber, and it doesn't offer much/if any friction. So, my question is, what is the prescribed material (synthetic rubber?) to use here and where can I get it? It must most certainly not be what I am using now.
Interesting and insightful responses from everyone. Thank you all.

 

[soling42]

I wouldn't leave the dock without my rudder cleated down in a "clamcleat" releasing cleat. It'll hold the rudder in place but release if you strike any object. An easy 15min project....just do it.

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78

The rubber inserts on each side of your rudder will get harder over time but must have some resistance to assist with the friction needed to do their job. Call Hunter or run to Home Depot and look for some 1/4" flat sections that you can cut new ones with. Maybe even a thick piece of an old BIG truck/tractor inner tube from your friendly giant truck tube guy....

Here's a pic of my setup with the Clamcleat releasing cleat.....the fix to your woes.

 

[CapeCodHunter]

Excellent advice and you sure make following it easy. I have already ordered my mini clamcleat. Finding the right material for the liner will be a bit trickier, but thanks to you and the other well-informed advice I'm certain I'm on the right course.

A million thanks to you and the other experts on this site!

 

[Dave4991]

Planning to replace the rubber gasket material on my h260 rudder soon (it slips too). It is a thin rubber material...plan on trying a circular rubber jar opener. I have a few lying around in kitchen drawers - before I look to purchase something else.

 

[Dave4991]

The quick release clam cleat option is detailed very well at George's web site:
http://www.h260.com/rudder/rudder_problems/rudder.html for his h260. He also includes a downhaul fix that works very well. Each topic includes a link of what to buy and where to purchase it.

 

[CapeCodHunter]

I'd be interested to hear how you would affix flexible rubber to the rudder....epoxy? Given the location between two opposing flat surfaces with a lot of compression, I can only imagine something more rigid standing a chance of staying intact after a couple of uses.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

rubber goes on insides of rudder brackets. I would use contact cement. If Wing nut tension device has one of the plastic bushings around the bolt between the two plates be sure it is not too long or you will be tightening against the bushing only and not comnpressing the plates against the rudder.

 

[soling42]

Dennis is right. The size and density of the inserts has to be pretty close to what the org material was. You might wander around for days looking for the right stuff only to find it's not too unreasonable from Hunter.

Mine are about 8" round x 3/16" thick with a 1" hole for the shaft. They're somewhat floppy but not so soft you can pinch it with your fingers and leave a dimple. Think about A REALLY stiff mouse pad. I wouldn't glue them. They're designed to provide resistance from both sides yet still slide when needed. A piece of an old thick wetsuit might work but I'd still just order a set from Hunter and be done with it.

Mike

 

[CapeCodHunter]

Good information. Thank you. Does anyone have the URL for Hunter supplies? I feel foolish for asking but the Hunter site doesnt make it very easy

 

[soling42]

Contact Hunter Marine Corporation
Route 441, Post Office Box 1030
Alachua, Florida USA 32616
Phone (Wihtin the US): 386-462-3077

Here's the ph # but I'm not buying it for you too

I'm done.

 

[BrianW]

I obtained my rudder rubber material from a local industrial gasket suppy company. It's simply called red rubber gasket material. Make sure you measure the thickness on your old one. It may have shrunk a tad. Others hace cautioned about having a good bushing. They had a scrap piece from a roll of the stuff they actually GAVE me. Use the old set as a pattern. I even drew a pattern on a piece of paper for further use. My H26 owners manual cautions about tying the rudder downhaul line for exactly the reason others state. The mini pop-up cleat is the permanent solution. I temporarily used a bungee cord to secure my downhaul line, making sure it had enough "give" to pop up if I hit something. BrianW

 

[Dan Hill]

I installed a 2to1 downhaul system on our h240 that holds great, similar to the 260s. I have seen posts stating some of these smaller hunters used a breakaway pin thru the rudder and brackets and some have used old bic pen housings as a substitute with good success. Good Luck!