H340 Sump Box Install

artboas · Jan 30, 2012

Go with a through hull above water line

Cool_Change said:
We have a 2000 340 which comes from the factory with the ice box, air conditioner and head shower all draining into the main bilge. Am installing a sump box with an integral pump in the shallow bilge area just aft of the main bilge.

What I'm looking for advice / experience on is where to route the discharge. I see four options:

1) Y-connector into the galley sink drain
2) Y-connector into the head sink drain
3) Y-connector into the existing bilge discharge altho I think I'd then need one-way valves on each to avoid one pump backfilling the other
4) A new discharge near the existing bilge one. Am reluctant to add another thru-hull even if above the waterline.

Leaning toward using the galley sink drain (door number one above) but looking for comments. Would this btw need some sort of anti-siphon loop/valve?

Scott

The sump boxes use modified bilge pumps, and the flow rate is about 600 gph.
You can't T into a sink through hull, or you'll start shoving water up to the sink. Plus, the smell of the stale water will stink up your cabin.
You need a though hull above water line.
Make sure you put an "up loop" in the piping.
You have 2 choices for location:
Down low where your airco water output is, or higher up.
I would go higher, so you don't have to worry about it being under water when you heel.
The sump boxes have a crummy flapper check valve built on. These are useless.
I would get a separate check valve.
BUT.......
Here is what I would really do.
Don't use a sump box.
Huh?
Yes, there is a much better way, that will cause you a lot less grief.
Whale have come out with a really spiffy product called the IC grey water pump. Here's what it does:
It has a "T" fitting which you feed in your grey water into both input legs.
The third leg goes to , what looks like, a normal pressure water pump.
The neato thing is that the "T" fitting has a water sensor built in, so as soon as there is water in the "T", the pump starts.
Think of it as a discharge on demand pump.
These kits are admittedly more expensive than a sump box, but...
The install is much easier
You won't need a check valve
The water pumps much faster than a sump box
Much easier maintenance wise. Sump boxes totally clog up with hair & garbage.
Buy this from Defender. Cheapest price.
I guarantee you this is a better solution.
Plus... With a sump box, you have to ensure the box is lower than all your grey water hoses. With this system, the pump can be anywhere.

Good luck

robertsapp · Jan 31, 2012

Re: Go with a through hull above water line

This pump sounds interesting. I can see how it would be just the ticket for the shower drain, because there's either water there (i.e. you're taking a shower) or there's not. The original poster also needs to tie in the drains from his air conditioner condensate pan and ice box if he wants a dry bilge. I'm curious whether this pump would be a good solution for those as well. You get more of a slow steady trickle from those sources. Also, you're still going to have a wet bilge unless you've also gone to a dripless shaft seal, in case you haven't already done that upgrade.

David Dick · Jan 31, 2012

Sump pump

I added the pump in the shallow bilge and drained it through the galley sink.
I did this about 4 years ago and have not experienced any back flow or bad smells. The biggest hassle was getting the drain line from the shower into the shallow bilge area. I also added the PSS dripless seal....nice clean bilge!

artboas · Jan 31, 2012

This pump will do it all

robertsapp said:
This pump sounds interesting. I can see how it would be just the ticket for the shower drain, because there's either water there (i.e. you're taking a shower) or there's not. The original poster also needs to tie in the drains from his air conditioner condensate pan and ice box if he wants a dry bilge. I'm curious whether this pump would be a good solution for those as well. You get more of a slow steady trickle from those sources. Also, you're still going to have a wet bilge unless you've also gone to a dripless shaft seal, in case you haven't already done that upgrade.

Honestly, I'm not a salesman for Whale...it's just that I've been looking for this exact solution for a long time.
And here is what's interesting.
The system comes with a pump and a remote T fitting with a cable attached.
The deal is that you mount the T fitting low in the bilge, and the pump can be up high in a different spot. Because the pump has a lot of suction, it will immediately pump upwards the water standing in the T fitting and hoses leading to it.
But.... You're not stuck with just plumbing into the T fitting.
You can plumb your entire boat's grey water into multiple T 's and hoses, just as long. As it flows down to the T with the senso in it.

Take my case:
3 airco units, 2 showers, and 2 sinks that drain slower than molasses.
Just run all the drains in a way That end
up at the Whale T, and it all gets pumped out.
I have read reports that having a shower and a sink going at the same time still can't over run the pumps... Which of course makes sense. It has a higher GPM rating than your fresh water pressure pump.
The only disadvantage is as follows:
My sink drains used to go to through hulls, which created zero noise. Now a pump activates when I use my sink. Of course I already have my fw pump cycling on and off, do one more pump isn't going to kill me.

artboas · Jan 31, 2012

Another reason to go above water line

artboas said:
Honestly, I'm not a salesman for Whale...it's just that I've been looking for this exact solution for a long time.
And here is what's interesting.
The system comes with a pump and a remote T fitting with a cable attached.
The deal is that you mount the T fitting low in the bilge, and the pump can be up high in a different spot. Because the pump has a lot of suction, it will immediately pump upwards the water standing in the T fitting and hoses leading to it.
But.... You're not stuck with just plumbing into the T fitting.
You can plumb your entire boat's grey water into multiple T 's and hoses, just as long. As it flows down to the T with the senso in it.

Take my case:
3 airco units, 2 showers, and 2 sinks that drain slower than molasses.
Just run all the drains in a way That end
up at the Whale T, and it all gets pumped out.
I have read reports that having a shower and a sink going at the same time still can't over run the pumps... Which of course makes sense. It has a higher GPM rating than your fresh water pressure pump.
The only disadvantage is as follows:
My sink drains used to go to through hulls, which created zero noise. Now a pump activates when I use my sink. Of course I already have my fw pump cycling on and off, do one more pump isn't going to kill me.

If you look at any manufacturer's install instructions for sumo boxes, or bilge pump, they always say pump out well above water line.
The sink drains on boat's, depending on your hull, plumbing, etc, get awfully close to water line. That is why they sometimes drain so slowly.
The higher differential pressure between a drain and through hull have a lot to do with flow rate.
But here's the kicker..
Sump boxes (usually) have an overflow vent built into them. That way, if the pump isn't working, it will overflow into your bilge instead of backing up your pipe,. (it still will to some extent)
It is possible that by putting a pump outlet close to waterline, and having an overflow in the sump box, that you could end up with a siphon in a bad situation.
What this could mean us that once the pump shuts off, the water will glow back down from the through hull to the sump box.
You have to have a few things working against you, such as leaving a plug in the sink, which could happen.
FYI, a cs33 at our club sank this summer under similar circumstances.
The long and the short of it...
Be very careful with using through hulls for more than one purpose. You could get a very nasty surprise

Lastly, look at the boat builders, who would do anything to save a buck.
They always exit bilge, airco & grey water
well above water line.

Ed Caldwell · Jan 31, 2012

Cool_Change said:
I've already bought the sump box (not that it can't be returned) but will have a look at the Whale pump as well. Volumes are minimal but I'd like to have a dry bilge and not be rinsing shower and especially icebox spills thru it!

Scott, what sump box did you get? The shallow bilge is not very big... Please keep us informed on what you end up doing, and take pictures!

artboas · Jan 31, 2012

You get what you pay for (sometimes)

Cool_Change said:
Here's the link to the Whale kit at Defender for anyone interested. $279 (on sale apparently) which is about twice what I paid locally for the sump box but interesting....

http://www.defender.com/expanded.jsp?path=-1|51|299222|121271|826345&id=1612504

I agree that the sump box is a lot cheaper. But it does a lot less. I went through 3 sump boxes, and decided it was time to make a more permanent investment.
The whale pump, (and once again, I swear I'm not a salesman for them), is a serious pump, versus the light duty sump box ones. The lift capacity is much better, and you can pump crud through them without fouling. On the sump box pumps, bits of hair and other garbage are forever winding around the impellers and gradually burning the motors out.
This will for sure keep your bilge dry. I am a dry bilge fanatic.
Btw, you are doing the right thing by draining your airco pan to the pump. Just beware that the pipe fitting coming off the pan clogs up with crud easilly. Inspect it twice a season.
Good luck

artboas · Feb 19, 2012

wise choice!

Cool_Change said:
An update...

Just ordered the Whale IC unit from Defender....even happens to be on sale this week so good timing.

I decided to go his way based on the suggestions here (my thanks) and my realization that even if I got the Attwood box into the bilge area as intended, it wouldn't be low enough to drain the shower, icebox and AC without water sitting in the lines. With the Whale I'll be able to mount the conversion point nice and low.

As spring rolls around and I get to installing will post another update and pics. Now just hope I can return the Attwood otherwise it'll be going onto e-bay / Kijiji!

Scott

Looking forward to your follow-up

Dmac336 · Mar 10, 2012

Based on this thread I have purchased the Whale system.....question on how best to run power- separate breaker or since I will have cooler dripping into it, should it be "always on" I.e. bilge pump- can I share same breaker?

artboas · Mar 11, 2012

You Can use the bilge pump circuit.

dmac24565 said:
Based on this thread I have purchased the Whale system.....question on how best to run power- separate breaker or since I will have cooler dripping into it, should it be "always on" I.e. bilge pump- can I share same breaker?

They will never be running at the same time

Dmac336 · Mar 25, 2012

Scott- how did you end up plumbing it? On my list for next week and still uncertain what to do? Have you thought about using manual bilge line? Am thinking staying above water line is smart thing to do.....as example- I close all below water seacocks when I leave boat ....with cooler plumbed in pump will be going on when I am "away" and seacocks are closed (tapping into always on bilge wiring)..... also, did you tie in the wet closet in head?