I have a Fischer Panda 4200 Series that will not start, sounds as if it's not firing....I have replaced the battery and I ve checked to make sure I have enough Fuel...Any advice on how to get her up and running would be greatly appreciated. ..
Fischer Panda Not Starting??
- Thread starter Diving4food
- Start date
I feel your pain. My FP is doing the same thing.
After going through everything, I finally go the local FP mechanic out to take a look at the generator. The exhaust valve was so far out of adjustment that the engine wouldn't start. After adjusting the valves, the generator ran fine. Twice. Out comes the mechanic again, and again the exhaust valve is out of adjustment. Again, the generator ran, and died after using the generator twice.
The mechanic wants to rebuild the motor as the valves just won't hold the proper clearance. Of course this is about half the cost of a new generator. All on an engine with less than 300 hours. Needless to say, I won't be rebuilding the generator. I'm looking at installing something else.
After going through everything, I finally go the local FP mechanic out to take a look at the generator. The exhaust valve was so far out of adjustment that the engine wouldn't start. After adjusting the valves, the generator ran fine. Twice. Out comes the mechanic again, and again the exhaust valve is out of adjustment. Again, the generator ran, and died after using the generator twice.
The mechanic wants to rebuild the motor as the valves just won't hold the proper clearance. Of course this is about half the cost of a new generator. All on an engine with less than 300 hours. Needless to say, I won't be rebuilding the generator. I'm looking at installing something else.
ditto
If the FP has been running good all a long than I would just see what is going on with why the value adjustment is not holding.
Like I said if it has been running great and not burning oil or any other
problems than suggest checking why the adjustment not holding.
My 4200 pretty much trouble free except for a relay and starter replacement my fault I think.
Nick
If the FP has been running good all a long than I would just see what is going on with why the value adjustment is not holding.
Like I said if it has been running great and not burning oil or any other
problems than suggest checking why the adjustment not holding.
My 4200 pretty much trouble free except for a relay and starter replacement my fault I think.
Nick
Isn't it a Kubota engine? Seems like some Universal/Westerbeke/Beta owners could add suggestions.
Seems like basic diesel troubleshooting. Check replace fuel filters, clean injectors, bleed lines, etc. and check the glow plugs. I doubt it's the same valve issue as the other person had. that sounded odd for a Kubota with only 300 hours.
Seems like basic diesel troubleshooting. Check replace fuel filters, clean injectors, bleed lines, etc. and check the glow plugs. I doubt it's the same valve issue as the other person had. that sounded odd for a Kubota with only 300 hours.
The engine on the 4200 is a Farymann, German made diesel.. Parts are available but quite expensive..
Would be interesting to know if the valve setting problem is a bad mechanic or a bad threading problem in the rocker arm tip area (arm threads, adj screw threads or lock nut threads) or a valve seat dropping into place or wearing severely..?? or a cam shaft wearing badly?
Would be interesting to know if the valve setting problem is a bad mechanic or a bad threading problem in the rocker arm tip area (arm threads, adj screw threads or lock nut threads) or a valve seat dropping into place or wearing severely..?? or a cam shaft wearing badly?
I've had the generator looked at by three mechanics so far. None of them can explain what happened, but all three said the same thing. Looks like the excessive wear of the valves, most likely caused by excessive wear on the cam shaft. All three wanted to pull the generator and tear it down before they could be sure.
Since I had this boat, I've had to replace starters twice, replace the compression assembly, and now this. All on a generator with less than 300 hours. As I'm the second owner, no warrantee of course. The repair this time will cost over half the price of a new generator. Time to cut my losses and run as fast as I can from Fischer Panda.
Since I had this boat, I've had to replace starters twice, replace the compression assembly, and now this. All on a generator with less than 300 hours. As I'm the second owner, no warrantee of course. The repair this time will cost over half the price of a new generator. Time to cut my losses and run as fast as I can from Fischer Panda.
I am owner of an FP mini 8 not used for 7 to 8 months now does not want to star someone to help me I have done many things like take to clean the injection pump, clean the injectors check the protection switches and the motor Kubota does not want to star, In the engine there is no combustion.
I had a problem with my FP 4200 and once needed to replace one of the 2 relays and it was the first relay on left and that is the starter relay than had the Gen not starting and than shutting down after a short time and thought it was relay but no but the relay was losing contact and had to use very small screw driver to make the contacts that the relay slides into needed to be made tighter.
I think when I was trying to figure out and switching the relay back and forth they came loose and had to squeez the contacts
to make better contact and now have cardboard piece from relay box on top of relay to push down on relay.
The relay to right side is for the electric fuel pump and also the internal cooling pump.
Been running fine and no problems,have been very happy with my FP 4200 and so glad I added when ordering my new 2007 H-36.
FP was very helpful when I had trouble with the relay and they told me I did not need a new relay and told me to try making the contacts tighter.
Nick
I think when I was trying to figure out and switching the relay back and forth they came loose and had to squeez the contacts
to make better contact and now have cardboard piece from relay box on top of relay to push down on relay.
The relay to right side is for the electric fuel pump and also the internal cooling pump.
Been running fine and no problems,have been very happy with my FP 4200 and so glad I added when ordering my new 2007 H-36.
FP was very helpful when I had trouble with the relay and they told me I did not need a new relay and told me to try making the contacts tighter.
Nick
FP has an absolutely abysmal reputation. I wouldn't spend another nickle on it if I were you. Look for a more reliable replacement for your FP.
After over 30 years of very dependable service, my old Onan has given us some problems lately (none terribly serious), but it's up and running well enough to get us through this charter season.
After over 30 years of very dependable service, my old Onan has given us some problems lately (none terribly serious), but it's up and running well enough to get us through this charter season.
I wonder how many happy with FP and how many hate FP and how many are really been installed compared to other Generators and which ones have the most complaints.
Other than one minor problem with relays and I use mine a lot here in Florida and been very happy,I did did see here on this forum where their FP was sent back to FP for rebuild and was in a boat yard in Fl. recently and saw 2 FP Generators getting ready to be installed in boats and because of price only people looking for other Generators.
Just really wondering how many other owners of other Gen have had bad complaints and if FP is so bad how are they still selling Generators.
Nick
Other than one minor problem with relays and I use mine a lot here in Florida and been very happy,I did did see here on this forum where their FP was sent back to FP for rebuild and was in a boat yard in Fl. recently and saw 2 FP Generators getting ready to be installed in boats and because of price only people looking for other Generators.
Just really wondering how many other owners of other Gen have had bad complaints and if FP is so bad how are they still selling Generators.
Nick
It seems like you may have an adjuster that is not holding. That would be an easy fix to replace a rocker arm and adjuster. If the valves themselves were not seating properly then the engine would not run OK as you indicate so it is probably that the nuts in the adjuster are not holding once tightened. Get another mechanic.
I don't 'hate' FP generators. From everything I've read and those who have them down here I've met, they are troublesome machines. Very troublesome machines. Sure there are those who get lucky and for some reason theirs do the job w/o all the troubles that crowd the forums, but those seem to be in the minority.
I guess that their size is what gets them the most sales. I'd love to have a smaller, lighter generator in such a convenient package, but I wouldn't install a FP generator on any boat I operate or own even if it was free. I just would not take the chance.
Claude; FP now installs the Kubota 2-cylinder Z482, a pretty good small diesel with wide parts availability. I wonder if the OP has the older German diesel power plant. I have the NextGen genset with the same engine. Zero problems. The FP mechanic who camps out at the marina keeping his products running tells me mine is noisier.
I've been looking for anyone who has any experience with the Phasor compact series gensets. I've posted on a couple of forums, including this one, and have not gotten a single response. Have you met any in your dealings with the NextGen people?
They look good, are priced OK, but if I can't find any owners at all, I'm not going to be their test platform.
Gunni.. Yep, I see that the new "K" model 4200 has the Kubota engine.. Great, since it seemed like a lot of the problems they had with the smaller unit was with the previous Farymann engine.. I don't know when they made the change, but I don't think it was more than a coupla 5 years ago? Since the original post was in 2013 I was thinking that he had one of the Farymann engine ones..
EDIT: here is a You Tube from 2015 that talks of the Kubota engine powered 4200 as "new"
EDIT: here is a You Tube from 2015 that talks of the Kubota engine powered 4200 as "new"
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I was looking into the NexGen also for my H380. Same engine/size as FP, but cost about $4K less. Also saw online al the problems with FPs. In the end $9K to $14K was too expensive given I had already made 40K in upgrades, davits, electric winches,solar, RIB and Engine, new electronics, new ports and hatches and so on, in addition to just buying the boat for cash. Will have to wait till after folding helm, companionway doors, a bow thruster, spinnaker....
Also the H380 only has 30 gallon diesel tank. And you can burn 3-4-5 gallons a day. Where the Gen would go I added a second bank of house bats and still have room for fenders and etc.. One of my largest storage areas is still largely open.
I was convinced by several cruisers to just get a small gas portable to meet most of my electrical needs beyond solar and wind, a Yamaha or Honda. The cost would be less than the annual servicing of an FP. Would not run the a/c , but everything else. Very quiet, Already have gas for the RIP 9.9. Yacht Brokers all talked about the high maint. cost of the generators which I had experience on my Bertram 46 and 2 RVs.
Well , I ended up ordering the brand new Westinghouse 2500 watt (2200 continuous), same size and noise levels, 44lbs, digital display and hour meter built in, burns less fuel than the Honda/Yamahas 2000 watts. Could not find any bad reviews other than the occasional lemon. Was surprised. And they can be hooked up in parallel. Best part , the price is just $579, including shipping and they are all(Honda, Yamaha) now made in China. Parallel hookup is just 50 bucks. This s/b able to run my A/C, and certainly would if I get a newer Dometic Marine Air, which are more efficient than in 2000. And I can take it ashore to a beach, or run just one or both depending on need If I get two. And if one fails, I would have backup or the ability get a new one in 48 hours almost anywhere. And when I will not be needing a genset, w/e cruise to a dock, I can leave it or them at my dock.
And if I do get a diesel genset, well I have a portable at low cost.... for other uses...
If you have had a diesel genset, the plumbing and wiring is already done and the install will be much less, otherwise this is a stop gap measure, reasonably priced, if not as eloquent ( sitting in cockpit or back scoop, hand pull starting and lifting it up and maybe slightly more noise for public consumption). Its an 80% solution for 1/25th the cost with 3 year warranty, and much easier to get serviced at low cost or just replace. I can place it in the RIB...lol... or even on the bow, far from the aft cabin... and it should not be so loud as to disturb others... In the cockpit floor, it s/b as quiet to the outside world.
The price of these small diesel gen sets is really over priced... The price of a 4kw is 3 times 7kw for an RV....
Regards,
Viper
Also the H380 only has 30 gallon diesel tank. And you can burn 3-4-5 gallons a day. Where the Gen would go I added a second bank of house bats and still have room for fenders and etc.. One of my largest storage areas is still largely open.
I was convinced by several cruisers to just get a small gas portable to meet most of my electrical needs beyond solar and wind, a Yamaha or Honda. The cost would be less than the annual servicing of an FP. Would not run the a/c , but everything else. Very quiet, Already have gas for the RIP 9.9. Yacht Brokers all talked about the high maint. cost of the generators which I had experience on my Bertram 46 and 2 RVs.
Well , I ended up ordering the brand new Westinghouse 2500 watt (2200 continuous), same size and noise levels, 44lbs, digital display and hour meter built in, burns less fuel than the Honda/Yamahas 2000 watts. Could not find any bad reviews other than the occasional lemon. Was surprised. And they can be hooked up in parallel. Best part , the price is just $579, including shipping and they are all(Honda, Yamaha) now made in China. Parallel hookup is just 50 bucks. This s/b able to run my A/C, and certainly would if I get a newer Dometic Marine Air, which are more efficient than in 2000. And I can take it ashore to a beach, or run just one or both depending on need If I get two. And if one fails, I would have backup or the ability get a new one in 48 hours almost anywhere. And when I will not be needing a genset, w/e cruise to a dock, I can leave it or them at my dock.
And if I do get a diesel genset, well I have a portable at low cost.... for other uses...
If you have had a diesel genset, the plumbing and wiring is already done and the install will be much less, otherwise this is a stop gap measure, reasonably priced, if not as eloquent ( sitting in cockpit or back scoop, hand pull starting and lifting it up and maybe slightly more noise for public consumption). Its an 80% solution for 1/25th the cost with 3 year warranty, and much easier to get serviced at low cost or just replace. I can place it in the RIB...lol... or even on the bow, far from the aft cabin... and it should not be so loud as to disturb others... In the cockpit floor, it s/b as quiet to the outside world.
The price of these small diesel gen sets is really over priced... The price of a 4kw is 3 times 7kw for an RV....
Regards,
Viper
farymanns are known to have exhaust valve burn issues. see the brits' YBW thread on it: "...This time last year I found the starting problem on my Mastervolt genny - Farymann 15W engine, was due to a severely corroded exhaust valve. It would start by squirting in some oil which would establish sufficient compression to get it going. When I took the head off I found the exhaust valve 2/3 corroded in way of the seat. The seat itself was OK. The replacement valve lapped in well...So 1 year and about 15 run-hours on the same thing is happening again...Taking the head off to replace the valve is simple enough, but can anyone suggest how I can stop exhaust valve corrosion, presumably due to the cooling water sitting around the gallery just downstream from the exhaust port...I have been running the engine each month (well most months) for a good hour on a good load (cold calorifier) and starting has been just fine...I have thought about a good squirt of WD40 into the inlet after shut down whilst spinning the starter, but I am concerned it will re-start on the WD0 sprayed in. Another option would be a freshwater rinse through after a run, but this all seems a bit much for a simple ginny engine... " .Nick Robinson..07-01-14, 21:10
suggestions: Is it possible to wind it round to TDC (compression stroke with both valves closed) when you stop it? With the valves in contact with their seats, there's less chance of surface rust forming due to the water vapour in the hot exhaust system condensing as the engine cools. causes: Either in the valve train giving incorrect clearance and a burnt valve seat (possible) or water getting in from somewhere. .a single cylinder which always stops with the exhaust valve closed might allow water to sit on the exhaust side of the valve and corrode the seat
suggestions: Is it possible to wind it round to TDC (compression stroke with both valves closed) when you stop it? With the valves in contact with their seats, there's less chance of surface rust forming due to the water vapour in the hot exhaust system condensing as the engine cools. causes: Either in the valve train giving incorrect clearance and a burnt valve seat (possible) or water getting in from somewhere. .a single cylinder which always stops with the exhaust valve closed might allow water to sit on the exhaust side of the valve and corrode the seat
I was told when first got my boat and up in NY and in a marina a lot did not use my FP and when called for extra parts that told me I had very low hours and that was bad for any Gen and they need to be used and it is bad if they sit and not used on regular basis.
Not problem here in Florida and we do alot of cruising and even when don't need AC I run it each night to charge all my toys.
I guess I have the older engine in my 2007 FP but it seems like it runs better and better each year and anchored out here in Pelican Bay for the weekend and my FP is now running while I am on my Laptop,Lucky Me.
Nick
Not problem here in Florida and we do alot of cruising and even when don't need AC I run it each night to charge all my toys.
I guess I have the older engine in my 2007 FP but it seems like it runs better and better each year and anchored out here in Pelican Bay for the weekend and my FP is now running while I am on my Laptop,Lucky Me.
Nick