Do We Really Need to Leak .............

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Jan 4, 2006
6,491
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
............. yes, for good health, about four to five times a day is good.

However, for a number of years I have been chiming in here on packing glands leaking and the fact I have run mine bone dry almost from the day I bought the boat new in late 1998 as a '99 model H310. As mentioned in several old threads, back in 1999 I discovered that if the stuffing box were packed with teflon impregnated flax, I could hand tighten the gland to the point where there was no water dripping and yet the gland stayed cool to the touch. Why so when this spells sure disaster for others ?

Many have said dry glands are a recipe for disaster or worse: the shaft will score, the packing will burn, the honey on the boat next to me will stop wearing short shorts, and my brother-in-law will come to live with us. :doh: Biblical prophesies have nothing on this bad boy.

I've heard it all and I can't say I understand any of it:

  • I'm told the packing gland has to drip because sea water is a better lubricant than the teflon in the flax (if so, why put costly oil in our engines if water is such a good lubricant ?).

  • I'm told the cross sectional area of the prop shaft can't possibly transfer the frictional heat of the rotating shaft into the cold, cold sea. No, it's really the two or three drops per minute of water leakage that carries the heat of friction away (try calculating just how much heat energy three drops of water contains even allowing for a 100 F. deg. temperature rise).

  • I'm told the water leakage washes away the shaft scoring carbonates formed by the high temperatures in the gland (but if the shaft and packing never get hot in the first place, how are the carbonates formed ?).

Seems like every statement raises another question.

Well, given the miserable, sodden winters we live with here in Vancouver and having nothing more adventurous to do, I thought I would dig into this packing conundrum and try to make some sense of it. Dry, wet, hot, cold, what's it all mean ? Sleepless nights, irregularity, and quite possibly E.D. :redface: I've got to make some sense of this mystery so it's off to the boat to gather a few numbers along with some pictures.

















What makes this packing work very nicely without any leakage are such basics as: proper installation, light compression of the packing, ensuring the flax packing is indeed impregnated with teflon, maybe a bit of SYNTEF lubricant during installation .............. oh, and one other thing, the shaft surface speed - the most important detail of all.

Sailboat props turn at reltively slow RPM's with low shaft surface speeds. In the above case, the surface speed of the 1" shaft (while cruising) was 270 ft/min with no damage occurring in over 1700 running hours. I think the photos demonstrate that 270 ft/min is a low enough surface speed to avoid any problems while running with no leakage. However, if the surface speed were continuously increased (as might be found in a high speed power boat with a larger diameter shaft), there would come a point where the heat from the friction would start to cause problems for the packing and ultimately the shaft if run dry. As the above shaft runs at 63 deg. F (17 deg. C) I suspect this overload point would not occur until there was quite a significant increase in the shaft surface speed.

And there you have it ............... "Believe it or Don't"
 
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Mar 25, 2008
37
Catalina 30 -
Great thread. I've had my 1978 C-30 for 5 years now and my stuffing box has never leaked. I've seen a bunch of threads mentioning repacking and how much leaking water was typical. Always thought it was odd my didn't leak but I was afraid to re pack and end up with some problem. Figured if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Glad to know I'm not destroying it.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,776
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Figured if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Glad to know I'm not destroying it.
Out of sight out of mind doesn't always work. If it isn't dripping, it could mean it is tight, too tight, and is burning up. Not sayin' that is the case, mind you, but have you recently checked the temperature when running at cruising speed? You know the one about assumptions...:)
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
With you on this one Ralph. I have been running dripless with GFO packing for many years.
 

bria46

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Jan 15, 2011
286
Oday 272 Waukegan, IL, Sarasota, FL
Gee, you could just install a dripless shaft seal and not have to worry about flax packing.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
At $300 for a drip-less I'm thinking Ralph is on to a better solution at $3.00 for new packing.
That is 100 packing changes or using his 1800 hours/change 180,000 hours of operation.
 
Jan 4, 2006
6,491
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Benny17441 ..........................

The signs of winter lay-up are showing earlier this year.
................ you simply have no idea what it's like here in the winter.

Many have said Vancouver is the most beautiful place in the world ........... on both days it doesn't rain.

Winters are so wet here, people have grown webs between their toes.

Everyone here looks like they're tanned year 'round ............. it's rust.
 
Jun 2, 2007
403
Beneteau First 375 Slidell, LA
My problem with dripless seals, at any rate the carbon-faced ones (PSS, etc), had always been the failure mode - suddenly going from no drip at all to almost more water coming in than you could keep up with. Admittedly very rare, but it happens occasionally. Teflon packing in a traditional packing gland sounds ideal to me.
That being said, the old Beneteau we recently bought has a different type of shaft seal, more like a rubber lip seal, that works very well and that I think would fail gracefully (gradually).
 
Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
Run GFO dry, no problems with heat, you just need to monitor to ensure you have found the sweet spot.
 

Tom J

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Sep 30, 2008
2,306
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
I feel a lot better. Six years ago I replaced the packing on the prop shaft with Teflon impregnated flax. At just over hand tight, the gland either didn't leak or dripped just a little. The gland never got hot, so I just kept an eye on it. As everyone knows, it should have been leaking steadily. Over 1,000 hours later, I repacked the gland and the flax looked like new, as did the shaft. All this time, I was worried that I was doing something wrong. By the way, my friend's dripless shaft seal failed catastrophically and gave him one of those frightening moments we would all rather avoid.
 
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