How do I know for sure if I need new sails? I have been having a couple of problems for the last three years or so, (I have posted about this on this site). Problem #1 - In any kind of high wind at all - like maybe 12mph or more - my hunter 170 will not point. I have had times when I could not return to the boat ramp because it was upwind of me. Problem #2 - My jib will not furl properly, it usually twists really tight around the bottom, and does not turn on the top. I am thinking the bottom will turn 4 or 5 complete revolutions before the top of the sail starts to furl. This means the bottom is tight and the top is loose, which causes "pockets" in the top of the furled sail, in high wind, the sail will rip open, or worse yet, halfway open - which causes it to beat so hard that I am afraid the stay will break! The guy at the local boat yard said that perhaps my sails were "blown." After troubleshooting over the phone with a couple of guys at Hunter for half an hour or so they said they tend to agree. Blown sails would account for both problems. New sails for my 170 will cost over $1200!!!!!!! The sails are ten years old, and I guess I will replace them if I need to, because it is getting dangerous to sail this boat the way it is, but how do I know?? I have tried several things over the last 3 or 4 years trying to figure out what is wrong, none of them turned out to be the real problem. I do not want to drop big bucks on sails unless I KNOW they need replacing. Is there an effective test? How do you know if a sail is blow? john
- Status
Photograph The Sails
Why not take a couple pictures of how the sails are setting under sail (of course) and post them on this site.
Why not take a couple pictures of how the sails are setting under sail (of course) and post them on this site.
Not sails !
Hi John You did not say how old your boat is ? unless you have a boat several years old or has been neglected or abused I would not buy new sails before checking a few things first. As a former H-170 sailor I think I would address the issue of not pointing to your Shrouds and rigging ! If the shrouds are not adjusted properly you will not get the performace your looking for.too loose and the boat will not point well , tighter, point good but down wind performace will suffer, Its a balance of what you are willing to give up to get what you want. the web site attached has several good post on the H-170, shroud tension, foaming your mast ect. dennis@sailing-obsession.com (go to the "tack room" to read about shrouds) Also, Here on the west cost, most of the H-170 are set up the same, Based upon one of our H.D.A.S.C. members (Danny) who is a very skilled and knowledgeable sailor. If you would like, I can send you a drawing / picture of how the shrouds are set up. e-mail mme at glenn.basore@medtronic.com Glenn ps how is your weather helm / lee helm ?
Hi John You did not say how old your boat is ? unless you have a boat several years old or has been neglected or abused I would not buy new sails before checking a few things first. As a former H-170 sailor I think I would address the issue of not pointing to your Shrouds and rigging ! If the shrouds are not adjusted properly you will not get the performace your looking for.too loose and the boat will not point well , tighter, point good but down wind performace will suffer, Its a balance of what you are willing to give up to get what you want. the web site attached has several good post on the H-170, shroud tension, foaming your mast ect. dennis@sailing-obsession.com (go to the "tack room" to read about shrouds) Also, Here on the west cost, most of the H-170 are set up the same, Based upon one of our H.D.A.S.C. members (Danny) who is a very skilled and knowledgeable sailor. If you would like, I can send you a drawing / picture of how the shrouds are set up. e-mail mme at glenn.basore@medtronic.com Glenn ps how is your weather helm / lee helm ?
Lee helm
This is the frustrating part for me. This is the only boat that I have ever sailed, so I really have no frame of reference. The boat does not show weather helm -meaning the tendency to round up in high wind, it Does have substantial lee helm - it falls off as the wind kicks up. When the wind picks up the sail will start to beat, it seems I cannot sheet in enough to keep the sail from luffing badly, the only option is to fall off the wind. This keeps going until I am sailing a beam reach, and therefore cannot make it back to the ramp. I have been messing with my rig for two years now based on the information on Danny's article and also some advice from this forum. I kept increasing the tension on the upper shrouds expecting the mast to bend backward, instead it bent FORWARD! I have tried it from sloppy loose to way too tight and nothing makes a difference. many variations and so far no success. The other 170's and the Flying Scotts on the lake seem to be rigged much looser than my boat is, and they point just fine. Part of the problem is that this pointing thing only seems to happen in high wind, which I don't sail in often, so I don't get much chance to experiment. I think I might try to find a good boat yard that I can take it to. john
This is the frustrating part for me. This is the only boat that I have ever sailed, so I really have no frame of reference. The boat does not show weather helm -meaning the tendency to round up in high wind, it Does have substantial lee helm - it falls off as the wind kicks up. When the wind picks up the sail will start to beat, it seems I cannot sheet in enough to keep the sail from luffing badly, the only option is to fall off the wind. This keeps going until I am sailing a beam reach, and therefore cannot make it back to the ramp. I have been messing with my rig for two years now based on the information on Danny's article and also some advice from this forum. I kept increasing the tension on the upper shrouds expecting the mast to bend backward, instead it bent FORWARD! I have tried it from sloppy loose to way too tight and nothing makes a difference. many variations and so far no success. The other 170's and the Flying Scotts on the lake seem to be rigged much looser than my boat is, and they point just fine. Part of the problem is that this pointing thing only seems to happen in high wind, which I don't sail in often, so I don't get much chance to experiment. I think I might try to find a good boat yard that I can take it to. john
Get a good sail maker to look at your sails
Get a Pro to look at your sails. A few years ago I had some sails that I was not sure about. Over the winter break, I took them to North sails Chicago to have them re-cut if needed. The main could be re-cut and it came back a much better sail. North Sails announced that the jib was too far gone to warrant any work. I think they were right and now have a new jib that points much better than the old one. I think they did a great job and were honest with me. I suspect any major sail loft would be the same. I do not recall what getting the sail re-cut cost, but it was a fraction of a new sail.
Get a Pro to look at your sails. A few years ago I had some sails that I was not sure about. Over the winter break, I took them to North sails Chicago to have them re-cut if needed. The main could be re-cut and it came back a much better sail. North Sails announced that the jib was too far gone to warrant any work. I think they were right and now have a new jib that points much better than the old one. I think they did a great job and were honest with me. I suspect any major sail loft would be the same. I do not recall what getting the sail re-cut cost, but it was a fraction of a new sail.
Sails
Where you getting your sails? I called hunter and they told me 290 for the jib and 475 I think is what they quoted me for the main.
Where you getting your sails? I called hunter and they told me 290 for the jib and 475 I think is what they quoted me for the main.
experience??
John, you did not say what your experience level was? I have sailed a lot of boats and reguardless of how blown the sails were, or how loose everthing was, I could still get it to sail OK, a little slower, but could easily go to windward, tack, etc. Sometimes I would have to manhandle the thing, but it worked. Getting newer sails should allow you to point better, a few degrees. Newer sails will allow you to sail flatter, a few degrees, and new sails will allow you to sail faster, a few tenths. I would check these items first.. 1) Make sure your upper jib swivel is smooth. 2) Check that the jib sheet angle bisects the midpoint of the jib luff. 3) Leech of the jib is the same distance from the stay as the foot is. 4) Check that the upper batten is parallel to the boom. 5) Main is sheeted in sufficiently to create enough lift to sail. 6) Check rudder blade..too far forward = lee helm, too far aft = whether helm. If that doesn't work, check the rigging, then lastly get new sails or good used sails. Should be able to get a good set of used sails for $300-400.
John, you did not say what your experience level was? I have sailed a lot of boats and reguardless of how blown the sails were, or how loose everthing was, I could still get it to sail OK, a little slower, but could easily go to windward, tack, etc. Sometimes I would have to manhandle the thing, but it worked. Getting newer sails should allow you to point better, a few degrees. Newer sails will allow you to sail flatter, a few degrees, and new sails will allow you to sail faster, a few tenths. I would check these items first.. 1) Make sure your upper jib swivel is smooth. 2) Check that the jib sheet angle bisects the midpoint of the jib luff. 3) Leech of the jib is the same distance from the stay as the foot is. 4) Check that the upper batten is parallel to the boom. 5) Main is sheeted in sufficiently to create enough lift to sail. 6) Check rudder blade..too far forward = lee helm, too far aft = whether helm. If that doesn't work, check the rigging, then lastly get new sails or good used sails. Should be able to get a good set of used sails for $300-400.
might be me
I am willing to own my lack of experience as a factor in all my sailing problems. The last time I had these problems I was with someone who has been sailig all his life (I have been sailing for about 5 years and this is the only boat I have ever sailed). I posted once to this forum a question "is there wind so strong you simply cannot point?" The concensus seemed to be that no, you should be able to sail into heavy wind - the waves will drive you off, but not the wind. That being the case I have sort of conculded that there is something wrong with my boat, because there is wind that I cannot point in, and it seems that it does not have to be all that heavy. The jib problem might be related, or might not be, I have no way of knowing. The jib problem does not seem to be experience related. I have had it happen when I was trying to motor the boat, the wind gets into the loose wraps at the top of the sail and rips it open, then the whole sail starts beating to the point where I fear the stay is going to break! Thanks for all the advice, I will print this thread off and check some things next spring - maybe this fall if I have time. I am also considering trailering the boat to a hunter dealer to check the rigging and sails. John
I am willing to own my lack of experience as a factor in all my sailing problems. The last time I had these problems I was with someone who has been sailig all his life (I have been sailing for about 5 years and this is the only boat I have ever sailed). I posted once to this forum a question "is there wind so strong you simply cannot point?" The concensus seemed to be that no, you should be able to sail into heavy wind - the waves will drive you off, but not the wind. That being the case I have sort of conculded that there is something wrong with my boat, because there is wind that I cannot point in, and it seems that it does not have to be all that heavy. The jib problem might be related, or might not be, I have no way of knowing. The jib problem does not seem to be experience related. I have had it happen when I was trying to motor the boat, the wind gets into the loose wraps at the top of the sail and rips it open, then the whole sail starts beating to the point where I fear the stay is going to break! Thanks for all the advice, I will print this thread off and check some things next spring - maybe this fall if I have time. I am also considering trailering the boat to a hunter dealer to check the rigging and sails. John
Basic boat set up ?
John, After reading all the suggestions given, What changes have you made ? You have to start some place ! I would start with the basic set up of the boat, "Rigging" I made an earlier suggestion on this, How ever you could contact Hunter and ask what should be the basic rigging settings and start from there. By the way, Hunter still has no "tension guide lines" for the H-170. I do know Danny H. from the H.D.A.S.C. was testing different shroud "tension settings" to see what the standard should be. You might want to contact him. If you start changing every thing at once thinking you fixed the problem, You wont know what changes had a positive effect and which are having a negative effect. Start with one or two small changes and go try your boat out. Remember what the sailing conditions are like since your not likely to have the same conditions day after day and you want to try and sail under the same conditions to do your testing.
John, After reading all the suggestions given, What changes have you made ? You have to start some place ! I would start with the basic set up of the boat, "Rigging" I made an earlier suggestion on this, How ever you could contact Hunter and ask what should be the basic rigging settings and start from there. By the way, Hunter still has no "tension guide lines" for the H-170. I do know Danny H. from the H.D.A.S.C. was testing different shroud "tension settings" to see what the standard should be. You might want to contact him. If you start changing every thing at once thinking you fixed the problem, You wont know what changes had a positive effect and which are having a negative effect. Start with one or two small changes and go try your boat out. Remember what the sailing conditions are like since your not likely to have the same conditions day after day and you want to try and sail under the same conditions to do your testing.
one big change
The biggest change that has happened to the boat is that the hull was replaced on a warranty issue after my first season. I have questioned if some of the issues might have started then, but it is hard to pin these things down because: * I had even less experience then than I do now, and * some of the problems only happen in high wind - conditions I only see once or twice a year I do believe that the roller furling problem may have started that second year. At one point I followed a tuning proceedure listed on this forum and thought I had the situation licked, but I tested my pointing ability in light or moderate wind. Next time I went out in high wind I got my bottom smacked again! Here is something that no one has been able to explain to me . . . The tuning proceedure that I followed was to level the trailer and keep tightening the upper shrouds until the mast rakes aft (using the haylard as a plumb bob). When I tightened the shrouds the mast never did rake aft - it bend forward! Increasing the tension on the upper shrouds also puts extra tension on the head stay - since they are in opposition. I detected no bend in the mast until it was bent forward - by which point there was WAY too much tension on the rig. I think buying myself a tension gauge and using Danny H's guide might be a reasonable next step. I considered buying a different boat this fall - there is a sweet looking compac 16 for sale near here - wouldn't frustrate me so much in high wind - but might just bore me to tears the rest of the time! Anyway thank you for your help, if anything I have posted here jars any thoughts let me know. John
The biggest change that has happened to the boat is that the hull was replaced on a warranty issue after my first season. I have questioned if some of the issues might have started then, but it is hard to pin these things down because: * I had even less experience then than I do now, and * some of the problems only happen in high wind - conditions I only see once or twice a year I do believe that the roller furling problem may have started that second year. At one point I followed a tuning proceedure listed on this forum and thought I had the situation licked, but I tested my pointing ability in light or moderate wind. Next time I went out in high wind I got my bottom smacked again! Here is something that no one has been able to explain to me . . . The tuning proceedure that I followed was to level the trailer and keep tightening the upper shrouds until the mast rakes aft (using the haylard as a plumb bob). When I tightened the shrouds the mast never did rake aft - it bend forward! Increasing the tension on the upper shrouds also puts extra tension on the head stay - since they are in opposition. I detected no bend in the mast until it was bent forward - by which point there was WAY too much tension on the rig. I think buying myself a tension gauge and using Danny H's guide might be a reasonable next step. I considered buying a different boat this fall - there is a sweet looking compac 16 for sale near here - wouldn't frustrate me so much in high wind - but might just bore me to tears the rest of the time! Anyway thank you for your help, if anything I have posted here jars any thoughts let me know. John
John, here is my $.02 on your problem.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
John, here is my $.02 on your problem.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
John, here is my $.02 on your problem.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
John, here is my $.02 on your problem.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
I do not have a 170 but I have owned a small centerboard *cruiser* with swept spreaders and no back stay. My Hunter 280 is also this way. Based on your post, it sounds like you were either given the wrong info or missed a step or two. I agree with other posts here that your rigging may be the primary culprit but you also may have a sail issue. As for the rigging, there is no way the tip of your mast should move *forward* when tension on the upper stay is applied. That tells me that the lower stays are not set right. There are two aspects to consider; rake=the angle the mast makes to the boat and bend=how much curve there is in the mast (and it better be that the middle of the mast is bowing towards the bow of the boat and the tip of the mast is toward the stern). If your rake is too far forward, you will get less weather or more lee helm. If your mast is not bowed/bent properly, the mainsail will have an improper shape. IOW, if you do not have the proper bend, the main may be too full for conditions and not produce lift properly; making for less forward movement and more sideways. As for your jib, either the leech is stretched too much to properly furl or the jib sheet lead is improper (I don't know if that is adjustable), or both. Also, like someone else mentioned, check to make sure the upper swivel is operating properly. Good Luck with this. I feel your pain as I remember the issues I had with my first boats before I learned about proper rigging adjustments and sail trim. One last thought; make sure your board is all the way down, especially in heavier wind. If not, the Center of Resistance is shifted back making for a lot of lee helm.
for what it's worth
The last time this happened I was with a friend who has much more sailing experience than I do. I asked him if he thought the boat performed inadaquetly on Grand Lake, and he said that although the boat could have pointed higher, the complicating factors were. . . The narrow channel that we had to sail into, with the wind comming almost directly at us. . . The 10 year old who (although an adventurous sailor) was a little freaked out. . . And the Massive Rocks just under the hull of the boat that we had to try to navigate around. He said that the jib beating like crazy is dangerous and needs to be fixed, but that he thought the pointing was just an indication that we got caught out in some serious wind, and makes good fodder for an adventure story later. I guess where my lack of experience comes in is that I tend to get caught out in heavy wind about once per year, usually by myself. I bought this boat for the small lakes that I live near, but I really want to sail on the Great Lakes. I tend to trailer a couple times per season. I rarely have problems on the small lakes. My problem with the big lakes is that sometimes the wind turns on as if God is flipping a switch, and He usually makes them blow me in the wong direction. Sometimes I go out onto Lake Huron with a 7 mph wind blowing from the North, once I am good distance from shore the wind starts blasting from the East - pushing me to into the shipping lanes. I can always get back to shore against heavy wind, but it is a lot of tacking and not a lot of forward progress, and sometimes a bad tack can cost me 15 minutes worth of headway. I guess it's something about fools rushing in. Anyway, So far I have always made it back to shore, and usually to the boat launch where the car is waiting ( there was just that once when I figured "this is a storm- that is a port- all cliches are valid"). My friend told me that when on the Great Lakes I should make it a habit not to sail further from shore than I could swim back from. . . . . but what the heck . . . . . I always wear my life jacket. j
The last time this happened I was with a friend who has much more sailing experience than I do. I asked him if he thought the boat performed inadaquetly on Grand Lake, and he said that although the boat could have pointed higher, the complicating factors were. . . The narrow channel that we had to sail into, with the wind comming almost directly at us. . . The 10 year old who (although an adventurous sailor) was a little freaked out. . . And the Massive Rocks just under the hull of the boat that we had to try to navigate around. He said that the jib beating like crazy is dangerous and needs to be fixed, but that he thought the pointing was just an indication that we got caught out in some serious wind, and makes good fodder for an adventure story later. I guess where my lack of experience comes in is that I tend to get caught out in heavy wind about once per year, usually by myself. I bought this boat for the small lakes that I live near, but I really want to sail on the Great Lakes. I tend to trailer a couple times per season. I rarely have problems on the small lakes. My problem with the big lakes is that sometimes the wind turns on as if God is flipping a switch, and He usually makes them blow me in the wong direction. Sometimes I go out onto Lake Huron with a 7 mph wind blowing from the North, once I am good distance from shore the wind starts blasting from the East - pushing me to into the shipping lanes. I can always get back to shore against heavy wind, but it is a lot of tacking and not a lot of forward progress, and sometimes a bad tack can cost me 15 minutes worth of headway. I guess it's something about fools rushing in. Anyway, So far I have always made it back to shore, and usually to the boat launch where the car is waiting ( there was just that once when I figured "this is a storm- that is a port- all cliches are valid"). My friend told me that when on the Great Lakes I should make it a habit not to sail further from shore than I could swim back from. . . . . but what the heck . . . . . I always wear my life jacket. j
Sailing conditions !
John, I have never sailed on the great lakes but I would sail my H-170 in the open waters of the Pacific ocean when I sailed and some times I would be off shore a few miles. I would guess the great lakes and the oceans are similar if not the same, strong winds, heavy seas, large swells, choppy conditions, and tieds. To sail in large bodies of water like these you must choose your days to do so. Most of the time I new before putting the boat in the water if I was going in the ocean or sailing the marina just by looking at the weather condition while on the boat ramp. I all ways like to sail early in the morning, 9:30 - 10:00 am. most of the time it was gentle winds and as the day went on the winds would build, depending how strong the winds were determind how soon my sailing day would end. In many cases, I reefed before going out because I was not sure how the condition may change, I would head out of the marina and if the conditions were okay, I would sail in the open waters, if not I would duck back inside to the protected waters. The H-170 is a great boat especially on lakes but to sail an H-170 in the ocean or great lake one must be an adventurous soul to do so. If your sailing solo I would try and sail in winds less than 10 mph. If I saw white caps I would reef and stay in protected waters and sail with the main only or not sail at all. I have been lucky to have some experienced sailors in my club who are always willing to sail with me, one can learn a lot from and experinced sailor. when you can, have one of these guys sail with you and dont get into the techincal stuff, just have fun and follow his advise.
John, I have never sailed on the great lakes but I would sail my H-170 in the open waters of the Pacific ocean when I sailed and some times I would be off shore a few miles. I would guess the great lakes and the oceans are similar if not the same, strong winds, heavy seas, large swells, choppy conditions, and tieds. To sail in large bodies of water like these you must choose your days to do so. Most of the time I new before putting the boat in the water if I was going in the ocean or sailing the marina just by looking at the weather condition while on the boat ramp. I all ways like to sail early in the morning, 9:30 - 10:00 am. most of the time it was gentle winds and as the day went on the winds would build, depending how strong the winds were determind how soon my sailing day would end. In many cases, I reefed before going out because I was not sure how the condition may change, I would head out of the marina and if the conditions were okay, I would sail in the open waters, if not I would duck back inside to the protected waters. The H-170 is a great boat especially on lakes but to sail an H-170 in the ocean or great lake one must be an adventurous soul to do so. If your sailing solo I would try and sail in winds less than 10 mph. If I saw white caps I would reef and stay in protected waters and sail with the main only or not sail at all. I have been lucky to have some experienced sailors in my club who are always willing to sail with me, one can learn a lot from and experinced sailor. when you can, have one of these guys sail with you and dont get into the techincal stuff, just have fun and follow his advise.
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