Dilemma: FCC and MMSI rules Jeopardize Safety

bawlmer · Apr 17, 2017

PG. I had the same issue as you and asked the same questions of Boat US. They said no 2 radios should have the same MMSI and had to create an exception in their database so I could register a second MMSI number under my profile. She said it was not unusual to do that. When I registered my portable I referenced my boat's name in the info and added in the associated notes that it is a portable assigned to my vessel. I also noted that if a DSC distress call was received from this number then there is a strong possibility of a MOB. The notes are supposed to travel with the MMSI info and you can only hope that they do. I hope this is helpful.

stuartsw · Apr 17, 2017

jack silver said:
I bought a boat with the radio installed. How can I find out if it is registered or how do I re register with updated info?

Most radios with mmsi's will have a feature that keys the readout to show the mmsi. The manual for your VHF should show you how to trigger that feature.
The MMSI is associated with the BOAT, not the OWNER.

Jackdaw · Apr 17, 2017

stuartsw said:
Most radios with mmsi's will have a feature that keys the readout to show the mmsi. The manual for your VHF should show you how to trigger that feature.
The MMSI is associated with the BOAT, not the OWNER.

Every one I have seen will at power-up SHOW you the existing MMSI number, or ask you to ENTER it if non-existent.

stuartsw · Apr 17, 2017

Gunni said:
Which 'round these parts will get you a stern rebuke from the USCG Watch.

It varies here in the PNW. The best results I get with the USCG are hailing on ch 22, or hailing on 16 and requesting a switch to 22.
And in BC Canadian waters, the CCG uses 83 for radio checks, and will respond when hailed on that frequency.
Obviously, one needs to monitor the channel for existing activity first.

PeterBld · Apr 17, 2017

We are off to Tonga in May.
MOB is a matter we are very careful about. There are no boats around near enough to be of any assistance. PLB is only useful for for finding the body, unlikely to last long in the water. And no one on board is alerted.
We use AIS automatic in each inflatable PFD. If there is a MOB our GPS alarms within seconds.
The only issue would be if we were dismasted.
On our previous boat we had a dedicated AIS aerial. But again, if that was damaged somehow we again have a problem.

Rick486 · Apr 17, 2017

Gunni said:
Which 'round these parts will get you a stern rebuke from the USCG Watch.

Which I guess is unfortunately kinda like a radio check....

northendboston · Apr 17, 2017

I have some limited experience with this - on our sailboat we have a Standard Horizon GX2200 with MMSI, and 2 HX870 handhelds - each with with MMSI .

This MMSI problem is not a Standard Horizon issue, it's lack of agreement between the FCC and their equivalents internationally. Some countries have recommended and already implemented solutions to address this problem, these have not been universally adopted - so this is still an issue.

We have 2 powered dinghies and typically the handhelds are under control of whoever is using a dinghy. Since all powered craft (including dinghies, jet skis etc) must be registered, I assigned a unique MMSI to each attaching the MMSI to each dinghy registration - that way I don't run into this boat location confusion.

And anyway in a real emergency MAYDAY situation - the handheld is likely to be on a dinghy or liferaft anyway! So this is a simple solution until international conventions are reworked! Then if necessary, I can review and correct - I must say that I found S/H are really good about cleaning/reprogramming the MMSIs as required.

jp

northendboston · Apr 17, 2017

Hey Jon

My logic was exactly the same as yours, even though we may be in the water, many boats within a few miles have elevated VHF antenna, anyway the DSC signal is digital and repeated so even if voice communications cant get through, the digital data signal probably will. Then if they have DSC they know my location - that's all I want.

The ruling around adopting the same MMSIs is, I understand, derived from the logic that since all the radios (mother ship and tenders) would likely have the same call sign, they could share MMSIs, but that is NOT the way DSC works - it would be totally confused if multiple locations were presented for an MMSI DSC call - so it's outdated.

Our real world experience shows that from a rubber dinghy, we can raise our club dock (antenna about 35 feet) from about 4 or 5 miles - that's seriously good - better than strapping flares to me!! And more useful and more instant than getting everyone equipped with EPIRBs and hoping that the big wide world will respond!

So I'm in sync with your solution - just hope the FCC etc will resolve this soon - until then I have 3 MMSIs - and it's not a problem.

Stu Jackson · Apr 17, 2017

Rick486 said:
Which I guess is unfortunately kinda like a radio check....

I hear ya (pun intended!

).

But why can't folks use a working channel instead of 16? It just indicates they are clueless. With scanning radios so prevalent, and included on almost every handheld I've seen in the last two decades or more, there is no excuse to use CH16 for a radio check.

Rick486 · Apr 17, 2017

Up here in NE Seatow I think it is does operate an automated radio check thing I believe is on channel 9. However, 16 is the channel you want to have confidence that you are transmitting and receiving. Sooooo.....

Skipper · Apr 17, 2017

JSumme said:
I understand the point this conversation is addressing, however, notwithstanding all the emergency tech, it is imperative to have a handheld VHF aboard. In 2014, my daughter and I were sailing my new Hunter 33e from Annapolis to D.C. When we were dismasted due to poor assembly of the jib furler. It was a Tuesday afternoon in the widest part of the Chesapeake with no shipping or recreational boating around. All of the sudden, my main VHF radio antenna was 20 feet under water! Our DSC was not going to help. Thank God I had purchased a handheld VHS and it was fully charged. It was able to raise the nearest coast guard station with its limited range. It was a lifesaver that day. No matter the range or sea state ALWAYS have an alternative form of communication on your boat.

A handheld radio is a good good addition, useful for many things.

However, in this case you would be better served in an actual emergency with a backup antenna (picture) connected to the ship's radio.
The ship's radio is 5 times more powerful than a handheld, and carries the boat's MMSI and DSC/GPS distress info.
It also runs off of huge batteries, whereas a handheld may need a recharge mid-emergency.

With the backup antenna to which I refer, you only need to connect it to the outlet on the rear of the radio, then place it anywhere, such as the coach roof.

Skipper · Apr 17, 2017

PeterBld said:
We use AIS automatic in each inflatable PFD. If there is a MOB our GPS alarms within seconds.
The only issue would be if we were dismasted.
On our previous boat we had a dedicated AIS aerial. But again, if that was damaged somehow we again have a problem.

Backup antenna. See my previous post just above.

Wet_Feet · Apr 17, 2017

PGIJon - I find it hard to believe that the FCC (If you have a station license) or other authorised agent (If you do not require a station license) cannot accommodate your handheld. Here in Canada, we have an "Appendix I" for obtaining an MMSI for your Handheld. The MMSI is a part of the GMDSS which is a global system, the first three digits of the MMSI are in fact your country code. It seems odd that I can get one in Canada but this can't be accommodated in the US. I initially tried to tie my handheld to my boat which also has a fixed VHF DSC capable radio, but they didn't like that and recommended I use the noted application. I wasn't sure that I liked that as much as my file for the handheld doesn't contain the information for our boat, but there's little point in arguing with government officials and even without that related info, the handheld (Uniden, MHS235 which has built in GPS) will still broadcast my position in a DSC distress message. I would be tempted to dig a little deeper and see if there isn't a similar application available.

Cheers,

JamesG161 · Apr 18, 2017

I thought I would re-share a true story about DSC and MMSI working well with the USCG.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com//...emergency-response-great.178787/#post-1291518

My boat was well beyond water level LOS of the vessel and we were about 90 nm from Mobile AL , USCG radio station. My FM antenna is 67' above the water. DSC is on ch 70, on my radio.
________
Also in this thread, there seems to be a mixing of....
1) Boat Distress
2) Man Over Board
3) Abandon ship

IMHO all of those could have different Radio needs. Note: AIS is probably not among them. The Admiral's water resistant iPhone has a "follow me app" too.

I may have watched too many Gilligan's Island episodes, but we are well prepared for all 3 and survival.
Jim...

PS: So far, I don't believe extra safety is a bad thing.

Gunni · Apr 18, 2017

FYI, with the latest USCG Rescue 21 radio system when you light up the air waves they can not only pick you up way off, they can also triangulate where you are. DSC or not.

JSumme · Apr 18, 2017

Skipper, great idea, thanks for the suggestion. I didn't know they made backup antennas. Can you purchase one at West Marine? I'll get one next time I'm there. Planning for safety is paramount!

Skipper · Apr 18, 2017

JSumme said:
Skipper, great idea, thanks for the suggestion. I didn't know they made backup antennas. Can you purchase one at West Marine? I'll get one next time I'm there. Planning for safety is paramount!

Yes. Or you can get one right here on SBO:
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?15019

Dilemma: FCC and MMSI rules Jeopardize Safety

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