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Damage to stem of hull

Discussion in 'Ask A Hunter Owner' started by cmachlan, Dec 31, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. cmachlan

    cmachlan

    Joined Mar 16, 2015
    5 posts, 0 likes
    none none
    US n/a
    Hey all. This is the boat i asked the question about the rudder replacement on. The survey also showed a hole in the stem over a void with moist to wet readings in the hull. The hammer soundings were solid with no signs of delamination, osmosis or blisters in/on the hull.

    I'm just concerned because the hole is definitely below the water line and has allowed water to intrude into the layers between the hull. I know Hunter hulls are FRP and not cored with balsa. A friend had a drain put in at the keel on his Passage that he opens every summer when he hauls out in the Caribbean as he was told it's a good thing to do on older Hunters. I don't know as I'm new to Hunters **IF** I decide to buy this one.

    Anyway, I plan to have another hull inspection done on the 10th with a fiberglass/poly vinyl guy on stand by to look more deeply into it.

    I figure you guys would know the hulls of these Hunters better than most. 20171230_192209.png Screenshot_20171231-112501.png 20171231_112638.png
     


  2. kloudie1

    kloudie1

    Joined Nov 6, 2006
    8,133 posts, 656 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Mandeville Louisiana
    Looks like she hit something hard and sharp.. Not a very big area, so not very hard to fix.. A good 'glass guy would do that for about a boat buck.. ($1000) give or take a bit.. glass in the hull not a problem, the tapering and fairing will open the holes up to good glass. .. what about interior ? did it get flooded?
     


  3. cmachlan

    cmachlan

    Joined Mar 16, 2015
    5 posts, 0 likes
    none none
    US n/a
    Thats the thing. It didn't go all the way through. It seems there's a void in the hull material itself.
     


  4. kloudie1

    kloudie1

    Joined Nov 6, 2006
    8,133 posts, 656 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Mandeville Louisiana
    All the better that it didn't go thru! So the spike or re-bar or whatever looks like it flexed the surface a good bit and may have caused a localized de-lam which the spike pushed inward after puncturing the first layers..? I dunno.. The damage is strange since what I see may be a failure in a previous repair.. Two things point to that... one, the gel coat appears to have cracked off all the way up to the waterline going forward (up in the picture).. would not be expected in a puncture type damage scenario.. and two, It is strange that there appears to be bottom paint under where the gel coat is missing.. so gel coat partially missing at last time bottom paint was applied..
     


  5. CloudDiver

    CloudDiver

    Joined Sep 8, 2014
    2,541 posts, 413 likes
    Catalina 22 Swing Keel
    US San Diego
    Great looking boat... That's not a hard fix to DIY, especially since it didn't puncture all the way through. I'd suggest epoxy other V-E resin because it has a superior secondary bonding strength. Since it's below the water line you don't have to worry about gelcoat, you'll just put a fresh barrier coat over the faired repair area. Once the paint is sanded back you'll get a better idea of cracking and any splintering/de-lam that may have occurred and how far away from the puncture that you want to feather back.
    If you were to buy this boat you can use this repair and the rudder to negotiate the price down. It's probably in need of a new bottom job anyway. Hire a crew to sand off all the old paint down to the original gelcoat. Plan on 3 gallons of Interprotect 2000 for a fresh barrier coat. Before you roll it on work the repair. Like you said in your other thread it would probably be cheaper to just get a new rudder rather than rebuild the existing one. Ruddercraft makes their rudders from HDPE (heavy plastic), but unfortunately they don't make them for a Hunter as large as yours. Still, if Hunter builds you one for $2K or less that is cheaper than the labor cost of fixing the existing one.
     


  6. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,655 posts, 2,707 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    The void is a manufacturing defect, caused by bad construction technique and quality control. At least in that area on that day. The extent of any knock-on damage is minimized by 'solid' glass construction in the hull, but I would make sure that that void does not run all the way up the stem. Its an important part of the boat. And that acute angle is difficult to lay-up and wet. If they were sloppy there, might be the same above and below.
     


  7. rgranger

    rgranger

    Joined Jan 19, 2010
    5,598 posts, 1,260 likes
    Hunter 26
    US Smith Mountain Lake
    Easy fix. About 2 hours of work... and will save you about $600 if you pay someone else to do it.

    Grind it out, ... clean the area with acetone.... cut up some small pieces of chopped fiberglass cloth.... wet with a quality 2-part epoxy.... fill in the hole. Tape over with some visqueen or other thick plastic sheeting to give it a fair start while the epoxy sets... this will save you a lot of sanding... once the epoxy sets (give it 24 hours) clean again with acetone to remove any epoxy wax... then sand smooth and fair... clean with acetone again. Paint over the area with barrier coat... then add one of these...

    https://www.wholesalemarine.com/kee...MIpcyBn8G32AIVR1p-Ch1R4APDEAQYASABEgIgFPD_BwE

    Easy peasy and you will have a lot of self confidence that it was done right.
     


  8. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    924 posts, 170 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
  9. Hunter Ad Bot

    Hunter Ad Bot

    Joined Oct 27, 2016
    0 posts, 11 likes
    US Seattle
  10. CloudDiver

    CloudDiver

    Joined Sep 8, 2014
    2,541 posts, 413 likes
    Catalina 22 Swing Keel
    US San Diego
    Jackdaw makes a good point here; hopefully that void is isolated to that area, you really want to avoid doing any repair in the area above the waterline so you don't have to fuss with the gel-coat. I'm thinking chances are good the void is only there because that is the lowest and tightest spot of the mold. When you grind out just the damaged area use a flashlight to look up and down to see if the void tunnels is any further in any direction. Down would be fine because you can grind out more, but any father up and you get into the gel-coat area. If the void goes up at all (probe it with rod or coat hanger, fiber-optic inspection cam if you can). Hopefully there isn't any void up that high and if any at all its small enough to squeeze thickened epoxy up there from a pastry bag or auto mix epoxy from a caulk gun.
    Jackaw also pointed out the difficulty of the sharp angle you are working there. Depending on how deep the void is I would consider using a piece of divincell foam or similar, shaping roughly to match the area but outside dimensions recessed enough to allow for a glass layup. This will give the glass an even shape to lay on rather than trying to fill an awkward void with chopped glass. If the void is shallow; after just grinding out the damage only, but not feathering back the glass just yet I would then fill the void with epoxy/microfiber butter. I would knife it to the finished shape of the hull and let cure. Only after that would I use my large 6 inch flap disc to feather back the repair area, I'm frigging surgical with that thing... Then I would be able to lay up the glass over a solid surface rather than fuss with goopy void that is soft and cold become misshapen. I really doubt the void is deep enough to have use the foam I mentioned to restore the shape.
     


  11. CloudDiver

    CloudDiver

    Joined Sep 8, 2014
    2,541 posts, 413 likes
    Catalina 22 Swing Keel
    US San Diego


  12. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    924 posts, 170 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
    I was kind of joking, although if you had a large enough plate, it probably would work. But do have one question as to why not 5200. I assumed one would want whatever was attached to be extremely permanent.
     


  13. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,655 posts, 2,707 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    With the exception of the hull/deck joint, NOTHING is permanent on a sailboat.
     


  14. SG

    SG

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    1,273 posts, 241 likes
    J/Boat J/160
    US Annapolis
    CM: in your original post you stated that : stem over a void with moist to wet readings in the hull. The hammer soundings were solid with no signs of delamination, osmosis or blisters in/on the hull.

    The picture you posted o fhe hull looked like it had a bunch of blister poxes on it?

    As for the layup -- Is the hull solid glass below the waterline (I don't know that Hunter was made)?

    In a layup, I don't think there were any bulkheads -- just a hull, they might not have got the matting right, but I can't imagine that wouldn't have been seen on i) the inside of the hull or ii) the outside.

    It looks to me like there was a impact on something hard and the backing got knocked out -- I can't imagine a void like that which magically "sucked-in" and cracked that way. If you hit a log, plank, submerged pilling, whatever, you crack things.

    I think you need a good fiberglass guy, Where is the boat located?
     


  15. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    6,850 posts, 649 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Over the years as a multiline dealer, I saw voids in the bow and the most common reason was not using the proper resin roller when laying fiberglass in the bow area of the mold or just simple laziness of the employee and again related to many manufacturers. I did see a mark on the bottom void but it could have broken open that void. Not sure but that was the most common cause of those bow voids. As to how long, suggest taking a fine wire and poke into it to see if localized or long. If a void only, I use to fill it with Water Tite two part epoxy which worked well for many dealers I use to converse with. If an enlongated void, of course fiberglass work. Below the water line, barrier epoxy coats took care of that but above, I would gel coat that as it would be difficult to get the precise color due to age of the boat. West Marine sells the oil based colorants for gel coat(oil based). You cannot use the water based colorants in gel coat and remember it takes a higher temp hardner to use in gel coat.

    As for all the pitt blisters, it is basically water that seeped behind the gel coat in small pools allowing water intrusion into the fiberglass. Suggest an entire peel of the gel coat, allow the hull to dry, repair any voids in the glass and then apply multiple barrier coats. If it were a few pit blisters, then I would pop and use acetone to dry out and then allow the boat to sit for a while for the hull to dry out. Not sure if a barrier coat was used on that boat. Many causes for these pitt blisters but two come to mind what I dealt with. The first depending the location of the boat was what else was in the water and not coated with barrier coats. The second and the most serious was the formulation of gel coats which the manufacturers screwed around with and this was an issue with many manufacturers of sailboats to include the three largest. Lawsuits were filed by the sailboat manufacturers ;yet, many customers blamed the sailboat manufacturers. I had many boats as a dealer affected and was not happy when peeling off the gel coats but came back with multiple layers of epoxy barrier coats. Since I do not know the age or year of the boat, I cannot be sure on this but suspect I am correct.
    If the original poster wishes to purchase the boat, he could either demand the seller to address that or offer less and then have it repaired properly.
    I did email the orginal poster but never heard back from him. He may have moved on already from this boat.
    Crazy dave condon