Has anyone had any experience with having a yard do the bottom work on your boat. This might be going as far as "peeling" or grinding the gelcoat below the waterline and building up coats of barrier and paint. In other words a complete bottom job. What would be the going rate per foot?
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bottom paint
I just had my C350 hauled out for it's first bottom paint since it was new 18 months ago. I was quoted $950 for 2 coats of hard (non-ablative) in addition to the haul out fee. It turns out that the shop that did the original prep, priming and paint did a lousy job on prep so the paint is falling off showing shiny gelcoat underneath. The place where I have it now said it would run just over $2000 to strip it down to gelcoat, prime and paint 2 coats. If you have any blisters in the gelcoat, that will up the cost a bit also.
I just had my C350 hauled out for it's first bottom paint since it was new 18 months ago. I was quoted $950 for 2 coats of hard (non-ablative) in addition to the haul out fee. It turns out that the shop that did the original prep, priming and paint did a lousy job on prep so the paint is falling off showing shiny gelcoat underneath. The place where I have it now said it would run just over $2000 to strip it down to gelcoat, prime and paint 2 coats. If you have any blisters in the gelcoat, that will up the cost a bit also.
Blisters
If you have blisters over enough area that they can't be individually repaired the gell coat has to be ground off. Then the boat has to be dried out. When dry several coats of barrier coat epoxy are applied and faired. Then bottom paint has to be applied. If the blisters are "cosmetic"--ie. they are small and just under the gell coat they can either be ground off or they can be ignored until they get worse. But eventually they have to be dealt with. In the Seattle area this can take as much as 6 to 10 months since the bottom must be bone dry and bottoms dry best when the weather is nice. (June 15-September 15) The cost for a 35 ft. boat will run $8,000 to $10,000. Bottom paint will run from $1000 to $2000 depending on what paint you use and how it is applied--costs lots more to spray on. I spent about 1 grand on my old Mac which is only a few feet more than your Catalina. Practical Sailor has some excellent test results for bottom paint tested both in Florida and New England. Worth the cost of a reprint.
If you have blisters over enough area that they can't be individually repaired the gell coat has to be ground off. Then the boat has to be dried out. When dry several coats of barrier coat epoxy are applied and faired. Then bottom paint has to be applied. If the blisters are "cosmetic"--ie. they are small and just under the gell coat they can either be ground off or they can be ignored until they get worse. But eventually they have to be dealt with. In the Seattle area this can take as much as 6 to 10 months since the bottom must be bone dry and bottoms dry best when the weather is nice. (June 15-September 15) The cost for a 35 ft. boat will run $8,000 to $10,000. Bottom paint will run from $1000 to $2000 depending on what paint you use and how it is applied--costs lots more to spray on. I spent about 1 grand on my old Mac which is only a few feet more than your Catalina. Practical Sailor has some excellent test results for bottom paint tested both in Florida and New England. Worth the cost of a reprint.
blisters
A year ago I had my old O'Day 30 done. It had bad blisters and had started some delamination on the hull. I had the blisters ground out and all the old bottom sanded off to fiberglass. Then I had new fiberglass put in over the delamination part. Then barrier coat(s) dried then a sealer put on. (like gel coat), then bottom paint. total cost including the 6 months it was sitting on the hard drying out in the yard (renting yard space) was just under $9000. I had the centerboard done and the rudder done also as they had some blistering on them. Then I found a leak (crack) in the centerboard trunk and this was also an additional expense. (part of the 9K)I took extensive digital photos of this 6 month procecss. After it was all done I sold the boat. I watched the entire process daily. It was like a new boat bottom when done.
A year ago I had my old O'Day 30 done. It had bad blisters and had started some delamination on the hull. I had the blisters ground out and all the old bottom sanded off to fiberglass. Then I had new fiberglass put in over the delamination part. Then barrier coat(s) dried then a sealer put on. (like gel coat), then bottom paint. total cost including the 6 months it was sitting on the hard drying out in the yard (renting yard space) was just under $9000. I had the centerboard done and the rudder done also as they had some blistering on them. Then I found a leak (crack) in the centerboard trunk and this was also an additional expense. (part of the 9K)I took extensive digital photos of this 6 month procecss. After it was all done I sold the boat. I watched the entire process daily. It was like a new boat bottom when done.
Bottom Yard Boat Work
Russ, What exactly is wrong with your bottom? Have you had it hauled out already? If you have and aren't sure, even after a good pressure washing, you will need to sand the old bottom paint off (get a good respirator and disposable suits), and do an inspection (ie. look for blisters, which are bumpy and "ooze" water when sanded/poked). The reason I say this is that we thought at one time we might have some, but it ended up just being some "globby" bottom paint. Blisters need to be ground out, let the core dry, and re-glass. However, if you have none (we are sooo lucky), apply a few coats of sealant and bottom paint (Petit Trinidad is good.) Cost-wise, it is much cheaper to do it yourself (if you know what you are doing.) If you do not know what you are doing, or the job is overwhelming, then consult your local boatyard. (We use Salt Creek in St. Pete.) The problem with boatyards is that they are few and far between, so you'll be on a waiting list, and the costs can be over one's budget. Remember, too, some of these guys are unskilled minimum wage workers- find a salty old salt who has experience or buy the Don Casey book 'Hull Repair.' Good luck with whatever you choose, and I hope you have minimal blisters! Chris US 30' Wu-Wei http://www.diysailor.com
Russ, What exactly is wrong with your bottom? Have you had it hauled out already? If you have and aren't sure, even after a good pressure washing, you will need to sand the old bottom paint off (get a good respirator and disposable suits), and do an inspection (ie. look for blisters, which are bumpy and "ooze" water when sanded/poked). The reason I say this is that we thought at one time we might have some, but it ended up just being some "globby" bottom paint. Blisters need to be ground out, let the core dry, and re-glass. However, if you have none (we are sooo lucky), apply a few coats of sealant and bottom paint (Petit Trinidad is good.) Cost-wise, it is much cheaper to do it yourself (if you know what you are doing.) If you do not know what you are doing, or the job is overwhelming, then consult your local boatyard. (We use Salt Creek in St. Pete.) The problem with boatyards is that they are few and far between, so you'll be on a waiting list, and the costs can be over one's budget. Remember, too, some of these guys are unskilled minimum wage workers- find a salty old salt who has experience or buy the Don Casey book 'Hull Repair.' Good luck with whatever you choose, and I hope you have minimal blisters! Chris US 30' Wu-Wei http://www.diysailor.com
heres another question
Ok, we have blisters and are blasting, now do you think "epoxy" barrier coat and filling or "vinlyester" resin then prime and paint?
Ok, we have blisters and are blasting, now do you think "epoxy" barrier coat and filling or "vinlyester" resin then prime and paint?
Flat earthers ?
Some people seem to be in a constant state of denial. Sure, some yards charge exorbitant prices for their services. Sure, the 'industry' stands to profit by the current level of fears abt. osmotic blistering & related evils. But to maintain that it's not a legitimate concern that should be addressed is kindof like maintaining the earth is flat: there appears to be a considerable body of evidence to the contrary. If you can make no other argument to support repairing blistering, consider the impact it will have on the eventual resale value of your boat if you ignore it.
Some people seem to be in a constant state of denial. Sure, some yards charge exorbitant prices for their services. Sure, the 'industry' stands to profit by the current level of fears abt. osmotic blistering & related evils. But to maintain that it's not a legitimate concern that should be addressed is kindof like maintaining the earth is flat: there appears to be a considerable body of evidence to the contrary. If you can make no other argument to support repairing blistering, consider the impact it will have on the eventual resale value of your boat if you ignore it.
Blisters
Any blister on your boat is bad! This can be an indicator of something very wrong with the manufacturing, gelcoat, or a given number of things. That's why people need to find the source and treat it. I'll be damned if I spend a bunch of money on a boat that is infected with blisters and pox. That is the equivolent of saying, "Topside leaks are nothing to worry about. Those bulkheads are only there for looks." If a salesperson told me that "blisters are overrated," I'd be out of that place in a heartbeat. But of course, I take excellent care of my boat, so this is only my opinion. Chris
Any blister on your boat is bad! This can be an indicator of something very wrong with the manufacturing, gelcoat, or a given number of things. That's why people need to find the source and treat it. I'll be damned if I spend a bunch of money on a boat that is infected with blisters and pox. That is the equivolent of saying, "Topside leaks are nothing to worry about. Those bulkheads are only there for looks." If a salesperson told me that "blisters are overrated," I'd be out of that place in a heartbeat. But of course, I take excellent care of my boat, so this is only my opinion. Chris
Re: here's another question
Rob, I'd go with the filling, epoxy barrier, then prime and paint. Just make sure you mix the epoxy according to the directions, taking temperature into consideration. Chris
Rob, I'd go with the filling, epoxy barrier, then prime and paint. Just make sure you mix the epoxy according to the directions, taking temperature into consideration. Chris
I'm 100% with Capt Ron on this issue
Capt. Ron must have lots of experience. I have seen more money wasted and more boats damaged with blister repair than I care to think about. Read his post again. I have been boating since 1969 with sailboats from 27-40 feet. I have spent days in boat yards just to see what works and what does not. Just follow Capt. Ron advise and enjoy your boat.
Capt. Ron must have lots of experience. I have seen more money wasted and more boats damaged with blister repair than I care to think about. Read his post again. I have been boating since 1969 with sailboats from 27-40 feet. I have spent days in boat yards just to see what works and what does not. Just follow Capt. Ron advise and enjoy your boat.
Epoxy & bottom paint
Rob: I would definetly do a proper epoxy job after you spent all that money on removing the blisters. We had a 1985 H'31 that had epoxy put on when new and that boat has not had one blister. It is in fresh water (which is suppose to be more prone to blister).
Rob: I would definetly do a proper epoxy job after you spent all that money on removing the blisters. We had a 1985 H'31 that had epoxy put on when new and that boat has not had one blister. It is in fresh water (which is suppose to be more prone to blister).
Russ why do you think you need to Peel the Gelcoat
I can understand the desire to remove the build up coats of bottom paint, but you can easily accomplish that but a simple "soda blast" or something similar. There is a lot of confusion on "boat blistering". Its also important to know that a blister, is not a blister is not a blister. Not all blisters are equal In other words you could have what appears to be blisters, but is just bottom paint blistering, or maybe just the surface gelcoat and not a structural laminate issue. Below is a good link to read that discuss's blistering from a fairly informed source http://www.yachtsurvey.com/blisters.htm
I can understand the desire to remove the build up coats of bottom paint, but you can easily accomplish that but a simple "soda blast" or something similar. There is a lot of confusion on "boat blistering". Its also important to know that a blister, is not a blister is not a blister. Not all blisters are equal In other words you could have what appears to be blisters, but is just bottom paint blistering, or maybe just the surface gelcoat and not a structural laminate issue. Below is a good link to read that discuss's blistering from a fairly informed source http://www.yachtsurvey.com/blisters.htm
My concern
over blisters is mostly in reguard to obtaining the smoothest bottom for racing. The bottom of my boat is covered with blisters. They are less than pea sized and only a few are actually open. Those that I have opened seem to be dry as I saw no evidence of actual drainage of water from them. I am resigned to the fact that I will have to grind all the gel coat off the bottom starting at the top edge of the boot top. This will be followed by fairing compound, epoxy and VC-17
over blisters is mostly in reguard to obtaining the smoothest bottom for racing. The bottom of my boat is covered with blisters. They are less than pea sized and only a few are actually open. Those that I have opened seem to be dry as I saw no evidence of actual drainage of water from them. I am resigned to the fact that I will have to grind all the gel coat off the bottom starting at the top edge of the boot top. This will be followed by fairing compound, epoxy and VC-17
No repair here
Those were some very informative links. Seems that the main gist of both of them (zahniser's and the surveyor) is that patch and fill jobs are a waste of your time, which would seem to fly in the face of what a lot of people say. The hull is going to look good when you launch, but blisters are going to pop up repeatedly. Those two sources had very different reasons for coming to that conclusion, but they both arrive at it just the same. The other main point that I'm picking up is that I have neither the time or the money (especially not the money, at $300/ft!) to do a major blister repair. I hauled out a year and half ago and I did see some blisters, but none were large and the yard operator (the person who would make $ if I chose to repair them) just shrugged and said "I've never seen one sink from blisters." I guess I have no choice but to believe him!
Those were some very informative links. Seems that the main gist of both of them (zahniser's and the surveyor) is that patch and fill jobs are a waste of your time, which would seem to fly in the face of what a lot of people say. The hull is going to look good when you launch, but blisters are going to pop up repeatedly. Those two sources had very different reasons for coming to that conclusion, but they both arrive at it just the same. The other main point that I'm picking up is that I have neither the time or the money (especially not the money, at $300/ft!) to do a major blister repair. I hauled out a year and half ago and I did see some blisters, but none were large and the yard operator (the person who would make $ if I chose to repair them) just shrugged and said "I've never seen one sink from blisters." I guess I have no choice but to believe him!
we are blasting
We have blisters, some the size of a dime others about 1 1/2" in diameter,,,some are paint others, when popped reek of vinager, get on your skin and burn....Yep we have blisters....I knew it when we bought it,,,and actually negotiated a bottom job in our asking price,,,but not a peel. That was 5 years ago, We have keep her in the water except for a hual 2 years ago when we were struck by lightning, Then she got a new paint job and the blisters didnt look that bad,,,,,So we are doing what I consider "the patch"..... Blasting, grinding, Solvent wash, resin coat, epoxy fill then barrier coat then bottom coat......If I do it right may last 5 years,,,or 20 min...it all depends on how dry the hull is....and since some of these blisters are NOT water but hydrolized 20 year old resin...it may NOT actually dry out.....and that means that under my new barrier coat we may get blisters again.... So along with blasting, grinding I will tape a plastic sheet around the waterline this winter, let hang but not touch the ground,,,this will keep the rain and snow off the bare hull for the winter and allow air circulation around the hull...I have some heater blowers Ill try to get going around the hull when I pay my bi weekly visit to the boat this winter, then come spring appy my new bottom and keep my fingers crossed... The question of Vinylester VS epoxy was asked because someone told me the Vinyester will "Breath" better than the Epoxy,,and if I do get NEW blisters they will "breath out",,,Vs the Epoxy being drum tight will not allow water in or out and there will be no place for any water that may be trapped in the hull to go,,,possibly causing an even larger hull delamination problem.....Any reflections on that one?? Thanks
We have blisters, some the size of a dime others about 1 1/2" in diameter,,,some are paint others, when popped reek of vinager, get on your skin and burn....Yep we have blisters....I knew it when we bought it,,,and actually negotiated a bottom job in our asking price,,,but not a peel. That was 5 years ago, We have keep her in the water except for a hual 2 years ago when we were struck by lightning, Then she got a new paint job and the blisters didnt look that bad,,,,,So we are doing what I consider "the patch"..... Blasting, grinding, Solvent wash, resin coat, epoxy fill then barrier coat then bottom coat......If I do it right may last 5 years,,,or 20 min...it all depends on how dry the hull is....and since some of these blisters are NOT water but hydrolized 20 year old resin...it may NOT actually dry out.....and that means that under my new barrier coat we may get blisters again.... So along with blasting, grinding I will tape a plastic sheet around the waterline this winter, let hang but not touch the ground,,,this will keep the rain and snow off the bare hull for the winter and allow air circulation around the hull...I have some heater blowers Ill try to get going around the hull when I pay my bi weekly visit to the boat this winter, then come spring appy my new bottom and keep my fingers crossed... The question of Vinylester VS epoxy was asked because someone told me the Vinyester will "Breath" better than the Epoxy,,and if I do get NEW blisters they will "breath out",,,Vs the Epoxy being drum tight will not allow water in or out and there will be no place for any water that may be trapped in the hull to go,,,possibly causing an even larger hull delamination problem.....Any reflections on that one?? Thanks
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