Autopilot

jssailem · Mar 31, 2017

With 19000 lb displacement (plus) you need to look at hydraulic systems. Your options are wide open. I bought the RayMarine Evo system. Boat owners who I spoke with all gave it a positive experience. Have to use the SeaTalk system and you get mixed satisfaction from the system. I am in the middle of installing my system today. It is the EVO100 Wheel model. My boat is 1000 lb under their recommended displacement. I see its use as maintaining course under motor and light winds. My sailing pilot is a Monitor windvane to be installed this month (providing all timing works out).

jssailem · Mar 31, 2017

I got my Windvane from a Beneteau ( less than 10 years old) new to him owner. It was designed for the sugarscoop deck. He found it in his way after a season. I got all the extra SS piping and will cut it down with much left over.

Can be done but not for every person or style of use.

I would think you could look at what is being used in fishing boats. They have the type of wet environ you describe and beef up the system to handle the conditions.
I know... heresy to suggest such on a fine sailing boat. But if it is good equipment and is hidden from view who will know.

jdhohmann · Mar 31, 2017

Hey, I have a hunter 40, and we went to the Raymarine S10 system with a worm gear drive and an Raymarine C90w chartplotter. This things works better than any other autopilot system I've tried or seen. The worm drive sits underneath our aft cockpit seat and bolts right on to the quadrant, amazing little system

LeslieTroyer · Mar 31, 2017

I'm very happy with my Raymarine EVO 200 with below deck linear drive on a separate tiller - it really does anticipate what a following sea will be doing and starts to correct before being pushed one way or the other. My only complaint is that the remotes for it are a generation or two behind, and requires the old Seatalk-1 network and then ST-1 to ST-ng converters (adding more $$)

Terry Cox · Mar 31, 2017

Our 1991 Autohelm 7000 linear drive autopilot does a marvelous job handing our 35,000 pound boat in most all sea states except heavy. Then I recourse to hand steering just by choice.

GorillaToast · Mar 31, 2017

jssailem said:
I got my Windvane from a Beneteau ( less than 10 years old) new to him owner. It was designed for the sugarscoop deck. He found it in his way after a season. I got all the extra SS piping and will cut it down with much left over.View attachment 134826

Can be done but not for every person or style of use.

Lucky you! I'd love to find a used one I could afford.

kimelmore · Mar 31, 2017

I'm currently in the middle of installing a Raymarine sail pack with a linear autopilot actuator in the aft lazzerette. I did some research and this was the best bang for the buck for my

kimelmore · Mar 31, 2017

oppss..it cut off my reply. I was going to add that my Catalina 380 weighs over 19000 but less than 25000. I'll post some images. The actual install begins next week. The power bus bar and ground bus bar are installed along with some other items. It is replacing a wheel pilot that just didn't have the power to handle this big of a boat.

colemj · Apr 1, 2017

Since you have Navico gear already, the Simrad and B&G pilots are excellent and will integrate their control with your chartplotter. We have the Simrad AC42 and are very happy with it. Simrad has since updated this to a newer model. Be sure to get the more advanced rate compass. Your existing drive unit will work with any AP no problem, and no need for a hydraulic drive unit - we are a 40' 24,000lb catamaran using a Raymarine electromechanical linear drive.

Mark

skipmac · Apr 7, 2017

Hi Gunni,
Spent the last few years researching and thinking about a new AP for my 24,000 lb, 42' Pearson. Looked at the big brands like Ray, all the Navico brands, Garmin, NKE as well as the smaller ones like Alpha, WH, etc.

Though they have some great units I finally decided to eliminate the smaller companies just over concerns about ongoing support, parts and similar issues.

Eliminated Garmin (even though I like their electronics overall due to limited information, short time in the market, no long term data, etc).

NKE has a great rep but out of my budget.

Ray uses non standard bus and has a dismal rep for tech support.

For me it came down to Navico. Here's a list of why.
1. Great tech support. Before purchase I had a number of questions and called several times. I always reached a real, trained, tech, usually right away. FYI I have a degree in EE and asked some technical questions and got excellent, no BS answers.
2. Haven't tested this yet but Navico is reputed to use a totally standard, compatible NMEA 2000 bus.
3. Recent updates. They just came out with a new rate compass that again, haven't tested yet, but has gotten great reviews. Also recent new computer and controller.
4. In my opinion the most bang for the buck.

A couple of other things. In the past B&G was sail, Simrad power. Now they share the same course computers NAC2 or NAC3, same compass, rudder sensors, etc. I chose the Simrad AP44 control head as it is stand alone but the B&G requires a control unit and a second display.

Installation was painless once a small installer (me) confusion was sorted out. This weekend will try connecting to my Garmin GPS to see how that works.

skipmac · Apr 7, 2017

By the way, I kept the old Raymarine Type 1 linear mechanical drive. Researched hydraulic but rejected it for a few reasons. The main one, everyone discussed hydraulic with agreed they are noisy. Since my rudder post is directly under my bed I want quiet and the linear drives I've looked at have plenty of power for my boat.

LeslieTroyer · Apr 7, 2017

skipmac said:
Ray uses non standard bus and has a dismal rep for tech support..

Yes SeatalkNG is not N2K. You can cut either backbone or spur apart and connect them together, or you can spend a few more bucks and get a purely passive adapter cable. Which is the exact same thing you would have to do if connecting any of the real n2k cable sizes together The main difference is the Ray cable is installer friendly. Cables are 100% male ends and these ends are much smaller than the N2K cables. Additionally the power cables are much bigger so less voltage drop

Ray is loosing functionality on its new i70s vs i70 to be listed as N2K compliant. The older devices had the ability to daisy chain several devices using short spur cables. The new ones require you to purchase more backbone adapters doubling the number of connectors the signal needs to traverse.

I've had very good response from Ray using their support forum, haven't tried the phone support. Chuck must be 100% dedicated to support on the forum I've found his responses insightful and helpful.

The performance of my EVO 200 is wonderful especially in following seas

SG · Apr 7, 2017

As was pointed-out above, depending on the age of your other instruments, you may be able to more (or, much less) use the integration of the Navico company equipment.

Navico has subsumed B&G, Simrad, Robertson, Northstar, etc. Their current pilot system uses essentially Robertson autopilot equipment. (I replaced our 17 year old B&G Hydra Pilot which was not longer supported with a newer Hercules system. The compatibility wasn't so clean between the older and newer units. I could go into that, but it's relevant only because while compatibility is important, it may not be applicable with older equipment. My Northstar chart plotter doesn't really use the same interface as the current B&G, for example.)

The Simrad (Robertson) autopilot had different firm and software than the B&G (Robertson) unit. The algorithms are more important for the "Steer to Apparent Wind" functions. Unless something changed, there isn't an equivalent in sophistication to the B&G Hercules or Hydra for that function. That may not be relevant to the way to sail with the autopilot, Gunni. If it is, that would lead you down a different path.

Most of the autopilot controls will handle steer-to-magnetic-heading or steer-to-way-point (or route) functions across platforms similarly. I'm less sure about the steer to apparent wind working across platforms, but I understand that they do (to a point) work "alright".

As for the hydraulic vs. electro-magnetic question. That's more important on how you balance the sails when you use the autopilot. If you Beneteau's 130 genny overpowers the rig as the wind picks up, you'll need more HP to overcome the affect. If you sail with an asymetrical in stronger winds or mixed seas, then you may need that extra umph to do what a heads-up helmsperson would avoid to keep the boat upright and moving at the same time. The Raymarine (old Autohelm) products were legion for undersizing their equipment recommendations. They probably still need to upsize the equipment.
When we bought our Hydra Pilot (and we just continued the practice), we chose a hydraulic system -- but I bought a Hynautic ram that it drives. Those were designed for large sport fshermen to drive through waves. Then we have close to a 2,000 SF asymmetric chute and if it powers up, it needs an autopilot that will keep the apparent wind and seaway working together with the rudder.

For you Beneteau, I think you could find a properly sized electro mechanical unit -- but I'd go with the recommendations for a 50' sailboat. (Displacement isn't the issue.)

colemj · Apr 8, 2017

The Simrad AP will steer to apparent wind or true wind - you can choose which, or it will also auto-switch depending on if the wind is forward (apparent) or aft (true). The steering algorithms for this are very good. It will also steer to Wind/Nav mode, where it will steer to optimum VMG to an upwind waypoint, calculate laylines, and tack when appropriate.

It can steer to magnetic heading or COG, as well as steer to either while automatically eliminating drift (cross current or leeway).

This is for the previous model Simrad AP (AC42) - they have since brought out a newer model and I don't know if there is any difference.

Mark