WRONG. You do NOT lower your mainsail to heave to. Never. If you do, it simply won't work.
Anchoring at sea
- Thread starter jorgefife
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Keeping the main up is my understanding as well for heaving to. The backwinded jib prevents headway and the main (with the center of effort aft of the mast) keeps you close to the wind. The result is little headway or leeway.
I dont know what kind of hove to you are talking about, maybe hove to for a bit of swimming or something like that, but when the weather gets so bad, that you have already done all the reefing, and your boats is still getting thrown about, then you run for a bit on the storm jib, but you are still taking a battering, so you come hove to, by bringing the headsail to windward, and lashing the tiller to leeward, and the boat quietens down. I know that, i am not theorising, because i have done it several times. Your main is down, if it was up, you would be either sailing, or out of control, with way too much wind pushing against you. The next step from hove to is usually to run on the bare polls, i have never had to do that, and always been advised against it. So if someone asked me about that, i couldnt really give advice, but i can advise on going hove to. As i say, having done it several times.
Its the tiller that counters the jib, you try coming hove to when you really need to with your main up, like in a force eight gusting to nine, and you want to get some sleep, what you will find, is the boat ends up on its side, with you rushing to get the main sheet off.
Because two people said i am wrong (even though i have done it) i decided to get a book out, and check, and the revised and updated handbook of sailing, by bob bond, says, "trim the headsail to windward, and lash the tiller to leeward"
This is a better video IMO. Tiller or wheel, note the rudder position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbjwP6F_N9s
To the OP-
Having sailed from Jax to Miami, through the Windward Passage to Cartagena, Colombia, I'd say your chances of getting run down are just as great while stopped, as running 6 knots. I'd sleep better with someone I trust on watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbjwP6F_N9s
To the OP-
Having sailed from Jax to Miami, through the Windward Passage to Cartagena, Colombia, I'd say your chances of getting run down are just as great while stopped, as running 6 knots. I'd sleep better with someone I trust on watch.
AtlanticAl - all boats behave differently. Some will run well under bare poles. Some need to drag drogues or cables. Others lie a-hull well. The generally accepted method of heaving-to involves two sails - one to turn the boat to windward, one to turn it downwind. I have read voraciously for 60 years on the matter and you are the first to adamantly refute the common practice. I have also hove-to in high performance dinghies while killing time and in several different keel boats. The two sail operation WORKS! Perhaps your Lancer is different, in which case I praise you for finding the method that works best for you in that vessel. I must try your method some time this season but I must admit I am skeptical. Please have the courage to try the traditional method yourself and report the results.
Al, the reason you are wrong is that what you are describing is called fore reaching, not heave to.
Only mainsail up is fore reaching. Jib backed with main up is heave to.
Both work, on different boats at different times and conditions.
Sorry to be nit picky, but that's the reason they have those pesky "definitions".
I didnt say i did it in my lancer, i did it in a irwin 35 on a bad run out to Bermuda in December a few years ago. I put the boat hove to, in order to get some sleep in some heavy weather, and to leave the main up, would have been suicidal. You obviously didnt read my other post, where i said i had just got a book out, and checked with the book, and it said, "set the head sail to windward, and the tiller to leeward" as for reading books, and sailing dinghies, that is not anything close to a keel boat in heavy weather.
No, not quite right, fore reaching, is the speed the boat makes through the water, when she is hove to. If a boat is not making any speed through the water, she will lay hull to, and you wont have a very comfortable night. I am going to quote verbatam from the handbook of sailing by bob bond "Heave to, to rig a boat so that it lies to wind and sea with as little movement as possible. Done by trimming the head sail to windward, and lashing the tiller to leeward.Al, the reason you are wrong is that what you are describing is called fore reaching, not heave to.
Only mainsail up is fore reaching. Jib backed with main up is heave to.
Both work, on different boats at different times and conditions.
Sorry to be nit picky, but that's the reason they have those pesky "definitions".
As for keeping the main up, the only time you will ever need to hove to, your main will have been down for quite a while anyway, because hove to, is the step you take before you go on the bare poles. Hove to, is when you try to let the storm overtake you, if you give up and go on the bare poles, then you are going to stay with the storm for a long time.
Another must read before you leave is Storm Tactics by Lin and Larry Pardy.Buy and read Richard Henderson's Singlehanded Sailing
Preferably before you leave.
http://www.amazon.com/Storm-Tactics...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329162498&sr=1-4
They talk about heaving-to to weather storms
, but the same principles would apply to taking a rest on the water (being careful to maintain a watch at all times).AtlanticAl. You obviously didn't read my post in detail. I do have extensive offshore and keel boat experience. You tried to belittle me to a dinghy sailor and a reader. Shame. Real sailors are developed in dinghies. Accept the fact you are in the minority regarding the method of heaving to.
Yes you quoted someone named Bond. He says sheet the headsail to windward and lash the tiller to leeward. He says nothing here about the main. I do not have a copy of Bond to research your claim. Did he say anything earlier about dropping the main? Or did you just assume he had? Many experienced offshore sailors almost always use both headsail and main as the practice promotes balance. Heaving to with reefed main and storm jib actually calms the boat surprisingly well.
The original question regarded anchoring offshore. Heaving to or sea anchor would be the appropriate answers. How he would do so is up to him. This is not a forum for quibbles.
Yes you quoted someone named Bond. He says sheet the headsail to windward and lash the tiller to leeward. He says nothing here about the main. I do not have a copy of Bond to research your claim. Did he say anything earlier about dropping the main? Or did you just assume he had? Many experienced offshore sailors almost always use both headsail and main as the practice promotes balance. Heaving to with reefed main and storm jib actually calms the boat surprisingly well.
The original question regarded anchoring offshore. Heaving to or sea anchor would be the appropriate answers. How he would do so is up to him. This is not a forum for quibbles.
I started sailing dinghies when i was thrteen, i was in the merchant marine at 20, I have sailed the ocean, in both merchant ships and sailboats. I may well be outvoted on how to hove to, but since most of the people talking about it, have only ever done it as either an excercis in calm waters, or from a arm chair reading a book, it dosent really bother me.
I took a guy of 26 in my boat a few years ago, before we sailed, their was nothing he didnt know, his experience was infinite, worth much more than my 20 years in the merchant marine, my 4 years in the sea cadet corp when i was at school, my membership of two yacht clubs, as well as the Royal west of scotland amatuer boat club. First time i saw him tie a bowling, i thought, "their is something wrong there" he tied it the boy scout way. When we hit heavy weather, he spent all his time vomitting, came to find out, he had never been on a boat until he was 24, and had only sailed two summer seasons, in sheltered waters, all his stories and experience, were lifted from the pages of books.
I am happy to take a boat out to sea, even when i know i am going to hit bad weather, because i have already seen the worst that weather can do while in the merchant marine, and i know, that a sailboat, will stand up to that weather, every bit as well as a merchant ship will, provided its handled properly. I am not going to say, i would attempt to sail through the dangerous quadrant of a hurricane in a thirty five footer, but i wouldnt attemt to to it in a sixty thousand ton tanker either. Becauser it would tear the mast off, with the sails down, and it would swamp it, and the tanker, it would smash that to pieces.
I happen to have a copy of that Bond book handy. The direct quote from the book describes leaving the mainsail up:
Seems strange... quote a book and then conveniently leave out the middle part of the quote that directly contradicts you.
To be fair though, the book does go on to explain that in heavy weather you may need to drop a sail to reduce area. Which you drop will depend on the boat and will require some experimentation. Contrary to what AtlanticAl quotes, the book suggests under headsail alone that you should _try_ sheeting to _leeward_ and lashing to leeward.
I do question Al's assertion that the only time you would ever want to heave to is in extreme heavy weather. I like to heave to for all sorts of reasons.
Page 206. It also has two nice pictures of boats heaving to with two sails up.
Seems strange... quote a book and then conveniently leave out the middle part of the quote that directly contradicts you.
To be fair though, the book does go on to explain that in heavy weather you may need to drop a sail to reduce area. Which you drop will depend on the boat and will require some experimentation. Contrary to what AtlanticAl quotes, the book suggests under headsail alone that you should _try_ sheeting to _leeward_ and lashing to leeward.
I do question Al's assertion that the only time you would ever want to heave to is in extreme heavy weather. I like to heave to for all sorts of reasons.
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Boy, its not often we see this level of vitriol in our sleepy little Cherubini Hunters forum...CHILL EVERYONE (or take it to Sailnet ).
I think we can all agree that heaving to is a good technique that everyone should know about. We can also all agree that the application of this technique varies by boat, conditions, and individual experience. There is no black and white answer. Everyone can try it for themselves, practice it, refine it, and hopefully find it useful.
OK, everyone go home and try it. This thread needs to heave to. 'Nuff said.
). I think we can all agree that heaving to is a good technique that everyone should know about. We can also all agree that the application of this technique varies by boat, conditions, and individual experience. There is no black and white answer. Everyone can try it for themselves, practice it, refine it, and hopefully find it useful.
OK, everyone go home and try it. This thread needs to heave to. 'Nuff said.
Hey Jim
Hand me the lazy jib sheet and I'll backwind the jib while you push the tiller to leeward and surge the active jib sheet for me.
Is this a fin keel or full keel bulliten board?
Hand me the lazy jib sheet and I'll backwind the jib while you push the tiller to leeward and surge the active jib sheet for me.
Is this a fin keel or full keel bulliten board?
Now I am really upset! This thread forced me to go find my "Storm Tactics" by Pardeys and I can't! Which one of you guys borrowed it?
I have only ever hove-to in normal conditions when wife says "lunch". Pulled the main and yankee in tight and then tacked. Sits there nice and quiet with the backwinded yankee.
So is there a bottom line? It stands to reason that in very heavy weather you are ghosting along under storm sail. Have any of my H37C comrades ever hove-to with just the staysail? Up here on the Great Lakes I guess a lot of guys/gals will be trying it come spring.
I have only ever hove-to in normal conditions when wife says "lunch". Pulled the main and yankee in tight and then tacked. Sits there nice and quiet with the backwinded yankee.
So is there a bottom line? It stands to reason that in very heavy weather you are ghosting along under storm sail. Have any of my H37C comrades ever hove-to with just the staysail? Up here on the Great Lakes I guess a lot of guys/gals will be trying it come spring.
there is nothing for the staysail to work "against" without the main...that is how the wind works...you are balanced between the wind in the main, direction X - and the wind against the staysail direction X +180 degrees...you just sit there, with little to no forward motion, you may "drift" with the wind and current a bit, depending on how your boat handles wind on the beam...
even in the worst of weather, it is quite comfortable...
can be done with a storm jib and an almost fully reefed main in bad winds, or just ride it out under bare poles...
even in the worst of weather, it is quite comfortable...
can be done with a storm jib and an almost fully reefed main in bad winds, or just ride it out under bare poles...
Heaving-to is preferred to bare poles because you are drifting enough leeward (bow 50 degrees to wind) to create a slick to windward to smooth some of the turbulence. Also, with the sea anchor deployed correctly, you can prevent breakers from crashing onto you (surface tension phenomina).
I have never been on the ocean with gail force winds. I have been on the Barnegat Bay with 38 kph sustained gusting to 48 kph (not quite a gail but a good blow), but I was having too much fun sailing that heaving-to was not our objective. We probably should next time just for practice in heavy weather.
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