If you install an IT, and it is within 10 "wire feet" of the shore power inlet, not as the crow flies feet, than an ELCI is not required.
AC Circuit Confusion!
- Thread starter Scott T-Bird
- Start date
If you install an IT, and it is within 10 "wire feet" of the shore power inlet, not as the crow flies feet, than an ELCI is not required.
Is there a particular reason for the 10 "wire feet" rule for installing an ELCI? Is there any reason that it can't be installed say 15 wire feet away from the inlet?
The maximum ABYC allowable distance from the shore power inlet, without over-current protection, is 10' of wire...
Let me ask the question a little differently.
When the ABYC Electrical Standards Committee determined the maximum distance an incoming AC line could be run without overcorrect protection was 10', where there specific reasons such as scientific evidence or accident histories that led them to chose 10'?
Understanding that it is always best to provide over current protection as close to the power source as possible, if my AC run was 12' instead of 10' would that be enough of a difference to make a difference or put my boat in danger?
When the ABYC Electrical Standards Committee determined the maximum distance an incoming AC line could be run without overcorrect protection was 10', where there specific reasons such as scientific evidence or accident histories that led them to chose 10'?
Understanding that it is always best to provide over current protection as close to the power source as possible, if my AC run was 12' instead of 10' would that be enough of a difference to make a difference or put my boat in danger?
That is a horse of a different color! I was under the assumption that an ELCI was required regardless. That's why I was questioning if people had ELCI and also used an IT just to prevent galvanic corrosion. I think I have a good location near the shore power inlet to place an IT. It appears that it would be relatively economical to install an IT and still upgrade the AC panel, but without the ELCI. Can I assume that this model will be satisfactory?
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?1328
Now I have to re-think this again!
I was not on the committee when the 10' rule was adopted. Heck on some boats 2' is enough to put a boat in danger. I can tell you that the standards are extremely well researched and poured over to the nth degree before being adopted. I am currently in year three of an ABYC standards development committee where the language will not even begin to be voted on until sometime next year. This puts it still another two years out at a bare minimum before the standard even makes it to a TE (technical document) and then another few years before it becomes an actual standard. No stone has been left un-turned and there are thousands and thousands of man hours involved in the development of this standard. Still, when it comes out, there will be stuff I am happy with and stuff I disagree with.
If the AC wire is in a protective conduit I see no danger in going beyond 10' and up to 12' unless it is done stupidly. Standards have to land somewhere and for AC inlets it is 10' of wire. 10' of wire on a boat is still plenty to encounter dangerous situations, seen this far too many times, so I tend to place a surface mounted breaker right at the inlet when starting from scratch or doing a re-wire.
The ISO/RCD standards (Federal law in Europe) requires a breaker within 0.5 meters or up to 3 meters if the wire is in a protective conduit and j-boxes right to the main panel breaker. FWIW I believe it would be significantly safer if the ABYC would adopt the ISO/RCD 1.5' / 10' (in conduit) requirement rather than the max 10' no conduit....
In many cases the ABYC standards are safer & more thorough than ISO/RCD but in this case the ISO/RCD is actually safer than ABYC...
On your personal boat you are under no "legal requirement" or "legal obligation" to wire to ABYC standards but it is always a good idea as surveyors survey to the standards and insurers insure to the standards. I get to do quite a bit of work each year because someone did not wire safely or adhere to the safety standards...
Rumor mill is that Canada is close to adopting much of the ABYC standards, if not all, into Transport Canada as Federal law. The US govt is in the process of re-writing the CFR as it pertains to boating and again much of the ABYC standards (what is not already there) will be adopted into the CFR as Federal law to applicable craft..
This is confusing...
I'm looking through a Defender catalog & I don't see any panels they sell that have ELCI unless I'm missing something here. That brings up the question why?
If they were advertised at least when a person such as myself who lives in a vacuum is looking to buy something it would raise the question....
The minimal wiring & AC panel after 35 years on my boat were toast so last year I bought a Blue Seas 8027 panel.
Although I have no plans to hook up to land based shore power, I do want to be able to run a small Honda generator should the need arise. So, would an ELCI main breaker still be required to meet ABYC standards?
Bob
I'm looking through a Defender catalog & I don't see any panels they sell that have ELCI unless I'm missing something here. That brings up the question why?
If they were advertised at least when a person such as myself who lives in a vacuum is looking to buy something it would raise the question....
The minimal wiring & AC panel after 35 years on my boat were toast so last year I bought a Blue Seas 8027 panel.
Although I have no plans to hook up to land based shore power, I do want to be able to run a small Honda generator should the need arise. So, would an ELCI main breaker still be required to meet ABYC standards?
Bob
Go to the Blue Seas website. Then go to their panel wizard. Design your panel. Submit and request quotes from your favorite vendors. The panels will be special order and considerably cheaper than the list price.
If there is a specific model number you want, call Defender special order. Nice people there.
Thank you!
On my boat I try to do things right and safely. If I'm going stretch a standard I like to know the reasoning behind the standard and what risks I am taking. Your posts have always been helpful in this regard.