Ray p70R A/P head

[Lee Hadjiosif]

I'm looking to buy a sailboat with a "new" smart A/P and a p70R pilot head. The R stands for rotary and it has a thumb wheel instead of the +1/+10 etc buttons. I read that the the p70R is for motor boats and can't figure out why the owner would buy this one for his sailboat...and the broker refuses to ask him! Does anyone know how you would auto-tack with the thumb wheel A/P head?
Thanks.

 

[Ted]

Does anyone know how you would auto-tack with the thumb wheel A/P head?
Thanks.

AutoTack is only available in Windvane mode and is relative to wind angle and is not adjustable. In the Windvane mode select tack to port or tack to starboard from the main menu.

 

[jssailem]

Here you go...

http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=1264
Page 65.
​

Using AutoTack in wind vane mode
The autopilot has a built in automatic tack facility (AutoTack) that turns your vessel "relative" to the wind angle you're currently on, and it tacks the vessel to put you on the opposite relative wind angle.

Item Description
1 Starting position
2 Tack
3 Wind direction
4 Final position

AutoTack is always relative to wind angle and is not adjustable.
In Wind Vane mode:
1. Using a p70 / p70s :

a. Press the - 1 and - 10 buttons at the same time to Tack to port.
b. Press the +1 and +10 buttons at the same time to Tack to starboard.​

2. Using a p70R or a p70Rs :

a. Select Tack Port from the main menu to Tack to port
b. Select Tack Starboard from the main menu to Tack to Starboard.​

 

[LeslieTroyer]

John has it right that on the P70R - you use the menu system --- but you don't need to be in wind mode to tack. I used that feature quite a bit before I put up the wind vane -- you just change course by 60-70 degrees in the desired direction -- the tacking angle is set in the firmware and not adjustable.

Les

 

[Meriachee]

Not adjustable is a royal pita and everybody should write Ray about it. The st40 series had that feature and they took it out. Somebody should buy the company and fire everybody. And, while I seem to be on a Ray rant, the freakin off course setting for the wind should be configurable too.

 

[Lee Hadjiosif]

Thanks to all for the responses. The p70R does NOT have a wind vane mode and that is clear in the manual...because is made for power boats. My question is: Is there an equivalent button to the press +1/+10 together to tack to starboard? You can always turn the thumb wheel by 90 degrees or so manually but that would take too long if you single hand and you have to run up to the genoa sheets to make the switch. Or should I figure that I have to replace the head with a p70?

 

[jssailem]

Lee.
The way you are asking the question indicates you want the features of the p70 and will not be satisfied using the rotary functions of the p70R.
Some (granted it is few) feel that the rotary analog feel of the p70R is easier to use then thrashing about in 30 knots and 15 foot waves.

I do not know (my system uses the p70) but I can understand such thought.

It is your boat you can do as you please and not worry what others may think.

I would encourage you to equip it in the way that pleases you. Life is too short to be upset with your autopilot every time you want to tack.

 

[jviss]

Not adjustable is a royal pita and everybody should write Ray about it. The st40 series had that feature and they took it out. Somebody should buy the company and fire everybody. And, while I seem to be on a Ray rant, the freakin off course setting for the wind should be configurable too.

Haters gotta hate.

I've made constructive comments on the Raymarine forum that were favorably received and some were even implemented. They are interested and listening! First, make sure your informations is correct. Then, make a constructive comment on their forum. As far as 'firing everybody' - shameful comment.

 

[jviss]

Thanks to all for the responses. The p70R does NOT have a wind vane mode and that is clear in the manual...because is made for power boats. My question is: Is there an equivalent button to the press +1/+10 together to tack to starboard? You can always turn the thumb wheel by 90 degrees or so manually but that would take too long if you single hand and you have to run up to the genoa sheets to make the switch. Or should I figure that I have to replace the head with a p70?

Consider changing it. It's $480 at Defender. Your P70r head is probably worth $350 on eBay. Net $130, best case.

 

[Meriachee]

Haters gotta hate.

Actually, it was a tongue in cheek comment. The matter has been raised on the Ray forum a number of times and in a formal email to the development group almost 3 years ago without further discussion. As a staunch supporter of the products for well over 20 years now, I don't think that I could possibly be called a hater.
My apologies if it was taken out of context.

 

[justsomeguy]

Actually, it was a tongue in cheek comment.

And here I was cheering on your curmudgeonly demeanor. Except for the "fire everybody" part, I still applaud you for expressing yourself.

 

[Meriachee]

And here I was cheering on your curmudgeonly demeanor. Except for the "fire everybody" part, I still applaud you for expressing yourself.

Bah. If we're not upsetting somebody, what's the point of getting out of bed.

 

[Skipper]

They also removed the "resume heading" feature, which was a stunningly usable operation. You could previously go to standby for whatever reason, like avoiding another boat, then hold the auto button till it beeped, which would tell the AP to resume the previous compass heading. This would preserve your wind angle. They deleted that feature on the new and improved P70. Now when you hit auto after standby, it takes the new heading, so you have to remember your original heading and re-set it after standby.
Also, on my Simrad tiller pilot on my previous boat, it would follow the GPS or compass by always steering towards the destination, regardless of incidental cross track. The Raymarine will always steer towards the TRACK, always wanting to stay on the line from your origin to the destination. This is good for powerboats, but a major pain for a sailor who may not be expecting the idiot AP to suddenly veer towards the track when outside the line, causing the sails to flog and back.

 

[jssailem]

the idiot AP

I am guessing here, but maybe that is why there are smart Skippers. We can tell the AP what to do. Similar to what is needed with any other crew member. Except maybe the Admiral... But that's a different issue.

 

[justsomeguy]

Bah. If we're not upsetting somebody, what's the point of getting out of bed.

That's my curmudgeon!

 

[Meriachee]

The issue with these "features" is that not everybody sails in the trades. If you happen to be on an inland lake or on the east side of the Rockies (and can see them) you learn very quickly to expect upwards of 180 degree windshifts.
You learn when to alter the course and when to stay, if you're intent on making a mark, and how to completely ignore it when simply wasting the day.
While doing the latter, with the kite out, let the boat track the wind. More often than not it's more important that the trim accommodates the sun angle for the admiral. Who cares if the wind shifts 25 degrees.

 

[Skipper]

I am guessing here, but maybe that is why there are smart Skippers. We can tell the AP what to do. Similar to what is needed with any other crew member. Except maybe the Admiral... But that's a different issue.

A smart skipper has equipment that has not been downgraded to idiocy by the manufacturer.
A smart skipper also has crew that does what he wants.
Therefore, in both cases, I'm an idiot.
:-D

Edit:
Seriously, no sailor with an AP and nobody on this board will disagree that "resume heading" is a fantastic feature.
I used it many times a day when I had it.

There was no reason to delete it.

It can be argued that track navigation is necessary in certain narrow circumstances, but I, like a giant number of others, sail the open Pacific Ocean. I only need to head towards the destination. In GPS mode this may mean some leeway but very little, given the nature of a GPS heading. Without the track, the AP was much more linear, and predictable.

Nother edit
Sorry, going off on a bit of a tangent from the original post.
A picture is better than words. Here's a professional artist's rendition of what I mean about track navigation (below).
The first line is what the SPX5 with P 70 does in GPS mode. It wants to always be on the track line, causing unwanted veering.
The 2nd line is what my old Simrad basic tiller pilot would do in GPS mode. If there were leeway beyond what the GPS was predicting, the pilot would merely continue to follow the GPS commands, and just adjust the heading more to windward.

 

[jssailem]

Skipper, For sure "resume heading" is a nice, no expected feature. It's lack is something that Raymarine may find important to program if enough folks comment.

There are enough possible issues that may cause an AP to not resume course that, for me, is something I choose to verify rather than expect to occur. I note that when my car GPS gets bent out of shape while I stop for coffee it asks if I want to resume my trip rather than assuming I am continuing to the previous destination.

I used the term "Skipper" as a generic id for the many boat owners with AP or those considering them.. No offense was intended. ;>)

I have a healthy skepticism concerning my AP. I am pleased but also surprised that it is as effective as it is. I expect the motor to die and drive the boat in circles or worse. One reason I am adding an analog "windvane" to my boat. While this too may fail, windvanes need no battery, and they have logged many miles of trouble free performance while covering a greater level of conditions then electro/mechanical systems.

May Raymarine hear the need and mend their ways.

 

[jviss]

Based on my experience with Raymarine, and my experience as an engineer and product designer, I would bet that the features lamented above weren't removed by Raymarine, I'll bet that they either designed from scratch or acquired the Evolution pilot, and dropped the Autohelm pilot. The features described were on the Autohelm pilot (I had an AH4000). I have the new, Evolution pilot now, but haven't completed the installation. A plotter upgrade adds sailing lay lines; I wonder if the pilot will support this feature in coordination with the plotter?

 

[Skipper]

Skipper, For sure "resume heading" is a nice, no expected feature.

There are enough possible issues that may cause an AP to not resume course that, for me, is something I choose to verify rather than expect to occur. I note that when my car GPS gets bent out of shape while I stop for coffee it asks if I want to resume my trip rather than assuming I am continuing to the previous destination.
.

"Resume heading" was a compass-only feature. The pilot retained the compass heading.
"Track" tells the pilot to follow GPS. There is no need for resume heading on GPS mode, for the GPS retains the heading. The operator can merely push the track button again after standby.