Bio Diesel
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Yes, I have. It makes the exhaust smell much better.
There can be heavy consequences to pay if you have problems with your fuel hose. It makes a mess out your engine/fuel system if used at too high of a blend. It also has slightly less
If you think you want to use bio, I suggest you talk to someone about this issue before you decide to use it.
There are hoses that are acceptable to use with bio.
There can be heavy consequences to pay if you have problems with your fuel hose. It makes a mess out your engine/fuel system if used at too high of a blend. It also has slightly less
If you think you want to use bio, I suggest you talk to someone about this issue before you decide to use it.
There are hoses that are acceptable to use with bio.
My nephew makes it, and I use it in my Yanmar tractor. Works even in winter and smells like McDonalds when I run it. 
Be aware that not everyone who uses it does it 100%. Even mixing in only 10-20% can improve the exhaust odor.
No Way
My stepson makes it and used it from other sources and he has a older truck but he has had many problems with it and has spent $$$$$ for a few years now and the biggest problem is filters seem to clog alot and has had to replace the fuel tank and pump and even after all the replacement parts it gives him problems with the filters clogging up.
He did offer it free for me when I was up in NY but no way and sailboats don't really use much fuel anyway but with all the problems that boats have with bad dirty fuel and water I don't want to take the chance.
I also think Yanmar does not recommend it.
Nick
My stepson makes it and used it from other sources and he has a older truck but he has had many problems with it and has spent $$$$$ for a few years now and the biggest problem is filters seem to clog alot and has had to replace the fuel tank and pump and even after all the replacement parts it gives him problems with the filters clogging up.
He did offer it free for me when I was up in NY but no way and sailboats don't really use much fuel anyway but with all the problems that boats have with bad dirty fuel and water I don't want to take the chance.
I also think Yanmar does not recommend it.
Nick
Nick:
Bio has a very great cleaning quality. If you start with an old crapped up system you will have problems. Then there is the hose issue that can be corrected. If it is used in a 10% mixture the problems "should" be minimal.
Bio has a very great cleaning quality. If you start with an old crapped up system you will have problems. Then there is the hose issue that can be corrected. If it is used in a 10% mixture the problems "should" be minimal.
So called bio-diesel a lot of the time is blended with reclaimed cooking oils. These cooking oils are usually not re-refined but simply 'filtered' and usually contain a lot of oleic and other 'organic acids' (rancid oils) and a lot of very hard to filter 'carbon' particles (filter problems).
Most of the common BUNA, Neoprene, Nitrile rubbers used in fuel line gasketing, o-rings, engine lift pump diaphragms, etc. will FAIL (soften and swell) when in contact with more than 5% of 'reclaim' containing oleic, etc. acids in the 'blend'.
Most of the common BUNA, Neoprene, Nitrile rubbers used in fuel line gasketing, o-rings, engine lift pump diaphragms, etc. will FAIL (soften and swell) when in contact with more than 5% of 'reclaim' containing oleic, etc. acids in the 'blend'.
How much does a diesel engine cost? How much are you going to save by using bio?
You have to understand there are the WVO (waste vegetable oil) proponents more or less filter french fry oil through a sock and burn it, and biodiesel where the WVO is processed to make it more similar to diesel.
If you are dying to try this buy a Mercedes 240D ($500) and go for it.
You have to understand there are the WVO (waste vegetable oil) proponents more or less filter french fry oil through a sock and burn it, and biodiesel where the WVO is processed to make it more similar to diesel.
If you are dying to try this buy a Mercedes 240D ($500) and go for it.
never in a boat, but ?
I have never used bio in a boat but I have used it in an older VW diesel, a 2000 VW diesel and a 2005 Duramax. I never had any fuel system failures. I made more than 200gal total and ran it up to about 80% bio & 20% pump diesel at times. I never tried filters waste oil, I always converted it to biodiesel.
It was messy and time consuming so I stopped making it. Glad I tried it, but I'm also happy to have more time for other things now.
I have never used bio in a boat but I have used it in an older VW diesel, a 2000 VW diesel and a 2005 Duramax. I never had any fuel system failures. I made more than 200gal total and ran it up to about 80% bio & 20% pump diesel at times. I never tried filters waste oil, I always converted it to biodiesel.
It was messy and time consuming so I stopped making it. Glad I tried it, but I'm also happy to have more time for other things now.
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- Dec 30, 2009
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I won't even eat their crap food, so I think I'll pass on the fuel. I invested almost 10k on my entire repower, and strive to keep diesel from a pump clean.....to each their own .....Red
I'd be careful about using bio diesel. I know of many folks up here that have run the stuff in their tractors & pick ups. Most of them have had to remove their fuel tanks to clean the "peanut butter"out of them, usually right after blowing the ejector pump.
Question, is the diesel at the marinas "off road" red dyed fuel or the kind you get at a gas station or truck stop?
Question, is the diesel at the marinas "off road" red dyed fuel or the kind you get at a gas station or truck stop?
Bob - Why do you care if it's died red or green. I'm almost certain it's all ultra low sulfer diesel. The red diesel doesn't have road tax on it & it used to have a higher sulfer content but I think it's ulsd now.
I agree that biodiesel is a bad idea in a boat. It does tend to loosen up all the crud at the bottom of the tank, then it ends up in your filters. I never had that trouble, but I know someone that may have had a biodiesel related failure.
I wish I had a boat with a diesel in it. Maybe in a few years.
I agree that biodiesel is a bad idea in a boat. It does tend to loosen up all the crud at the bottom of the tank, then it ends up in your filters. I never had that trouble, but I know someone that may have had a biodiesel related failure.
I wish I had a boat with a diesel in it. Maybe in a few years.
Not trying to hijack this thread, but isn't the diesel sold in the gas stations identical to that sold at a marina, with the exception that the marina diesel is died red?
I do not think that there is any difference between red diesel and the regular stuff. They dye it red so they can determine if someone (probably truckers) is cheating the system by not paying their road tax on the product.
Bio diesel is reported to work well in applications where the fuel is used is a relatively short period of time (fuel doesn't sit in the tank more than 30 days). Growth of "stuff" in the fuel system is likely to occur when the boat/vehicle sits a while.
The military was looking into using it but found that most specialty vehicle went through a tank of fuel every 3 or 4 months. Vehicles experienced a lot of problems with growth of micro-organisms that clogged the entire system.
As others have indicated, bio diesel has a highly detergent quality. It will "clean out" the entire fuel system when first introduced in older vehicles. After a few fuel filter changes, this process was not a problem.
I don't think most boats are good candidates for bio diesel.
The military was looking into using it but found that most specialty vehicle went through a tank of fuel every 3 or 4 months. Vehicles experienced a lot of problems with growth of micro-organisms that clogged the entire system.
As others have indicated, bio diesel has a highly detergent quality. It will "clean out" the entire fuel system when first introduced in older vehicles. After a few fuel filter changes, this process was not a problem.
I don't think most boats are good candidates for bio diesel.
I've done laboratory testing of ULSD and biodiesel...
... regarding bacteria and fungal growth. Generally biodiesel grows a slightly different culture and it grows faster. The range of acceptable conditions for growth seems to be wider also, in part we believe because 5% biodiesel disolves ~ 2-3 times as much water as ULSD (aproximatly 35 ppm vs 85 ppm). We also learned that it may require different biocides to kill the organisims.
Seems like a bad choice for intermitant or standby use. The last time I checked, many agencies have baned the use of biodiesel in standby generators.
I posted one set of results here; culture "A" was biodiesel.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/p/diesel-biocides.html
... regarding bacteria and fungal growth. Generally biodiesel grows a slightly different culture and it grows faster. The range of acceptable conditions for growth seems to be wider also, in part we believe because 5% biodiesel disolves ~ 2-3 times as much water as ULSD (aproximatly 35 ppm vs 85 ppm). We also learned that it may require different biocides to kill the organisims.
Seems like a bad choice for intermitant or standby use. The last time I checked, many agencies have baned the use of biodiesel in standby generators.
I posted one set of results here; culture "A" was biodiesel.
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/p/diesel-biocides.html
I got behind the fuel truck one day and drove at 18MPH between the gas station and the marina. He had just filled the stations diesel tank. He then went to the marina and filled them off the same internal tank in the truck. The ONLY difference was he added a dye at the marina that he did not add at the station.... Off-road is dyed red and has no road tax but it is still more expensive at the marina than at the station.
On another note I often see folks using "Baja filters" and such. and I usually get a good chuckle. In Maine all stations whether on or off road are required to have filtering at the main tank end and also integral filters for each grade of fuel inside or mounted to the fuel pump. They are mandated to be changed once per year by law but they are also of a non-by-pass design so when they begin to plug the flow comes to a crawl. Usually they are changed multiple times per year..
At the marina we fill at most often they are using a 10 Micron pump filter...
My brother is friends with a "greaser" who owns an older 240 Mercedes and he once admitted that when he adds the time he has spent converting the car to handle "grease" and the parts costs, new fuel tanks, seals, pump, collection of the grease etc. that his cost per gallon is well over $10.00.. He freely admits he does it only because he's a die hard "green" guy and it actually costs him money...
Up here Bio Diesel costs more per gallon than #2 or street diesel...
I have seen and heard of far to many problems even with "blends" on marine engines. In cars the fuel rarely sits and the tank can be relatively clean, not so on boats, but still the greasers have more problems than they like to admit.....
I also think a lot depends on whether you get "home brew" or a good quality "refined" BD. The "refined" stuff is quite expensive up here..
Just to set my reply in some sort of context, I grow soybeans for a living and was on the Wisconsin Soybean Marketing Board for 15 years so I may be slightly biased. Back about 17 year ago WSMB funded some research on the use of biodiesel in cooperation with the U.S. Army at Fort McCoy, WI. This was a year around study which looked at winter performance, emissions, engine wear among some other things. Biodiesel does have a higher cloud point than #2 diesel, but not a big difference. In the real world if it gets cold enough for you to start thinking about the fuel gelling, it's time to do something about it whether you are using conventional diesel or biodiesel. A 20% blend rate reduced several emission components especially particulates (soot) significantly. All of you who would like not have to clean the exhaust film off your boat, raise your hands. That's what I thought, there are a lot of us. Biodiesel has better lubricity than #2 diesel which is good for the injector pump. As someone else has said, biodiesel will clean the gunk out of an old fuel system and plug up filters when first used. Fungus growth in diesel, as noted, is a problem for which there are solutions. In biodiesel, it can be more of an issue if it is held in storage longer, but still can be managed. There is a ASTM standard for biodiesel and I would NOT use a biodiesel that did not meet that standard in any diesel engine. I use biodiesel blend in my tractors and would use it in my pickup if there was a supplier in my area. Many manufacturers of diesel engines have approved the use of a 5% blend in their new engine. Check your owners manual. The only drawback to using biodiesel, in my mind, is the cost; which at a 5% blend is not significant.
Would I use it in my boat? If my boat was a new or recent model with an engine that the manufacturer approved the use of biodiesel, yes I would, because there are good ways of managing any potential problems. I would not in my 1990 Hunter because the fuel system was not built for biodiesel use and I really don't want to find out how many filters I would have to change out before all the years of gunk was cleaned out of the system.
For more information on biodiesel go to www.biodiesel.org
Would I use it in my boat? If my boat was a new or recent model with an engine that the manufacturer approved the use of biodiesel, yes I would, because there are good ways of managing any potential problems. I would not in my 1990 Hunter because the fuel system was not built for biodiesel use and I really don't want to find out how many filters I would have to change out before all the years of gunk was cleaned out of the system.
For more information on biodiesel go to www.biodiesel.org
While my company does not sell diesel directly...
... we do sell to blenders and do stock the dye. Yup, that's the only difference. There is an DOT spec on the dye, known in the industry as solvent red #26. Don't get caught with red in your truck!I got behind the fuel truck one day and drove at 18MPH between the gas station and the marina. He had just filled the stations diesel tank. He then went to the marina and filled them off the same internal tank in the truck. The ONLY difference was he added a dye at the marina that he did not add at the station.... Off-road is dyed red and has no road tax but it is still more expensive at the marina than at the station.
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