Anchor Sizeing Great Lakes

Bob James · Jan 3, 2012

Do you have a windless? 30 lb plow and all chain rode will be a tough raise especially in a blow.

tkanzler · Jan 3, 2012

I'm not positive, but I believe the "S13" or "13S" designation is older Danforth Standard series, and is now a 14 lb anchor p/n 94013 (S920) good to 31 ft of boat (or so they say). For sandy Great Lakes sailing, I'd start with that and see how it goes.

I also always carry a spare anchor and rode, 'oversized' in case of unexpected problems, plus a small lunch anchor or two in case I want to tie off the stern also, for some reason (like to stop annoying anchor sailing).

Stu Jackson · Jan 3, 2012

Here's an anchor system sizing table for you:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400.html#msg30400

Sumner · Jan 3, 2012

Squidd said:
Looking thru my gear and I have a "S13" Danforth which I assume is a 13# anchor, I have 30' of 3/16" proof coil chain (plasitc covered) and I just bought 300' of 1/2" 3 strand nylon rode. ...

It is good to keep an eye on the weather, but still you can get caught in conditions that weren't forecast. We are very picky with our anchor gear and try to size for a boat that is larger than what we have.

I would consider 1/4 inch chain minimum for you and I personally wouldn't get covered chain. You say 1/2 inch nylon rode. Is this 'real' anchor rode like this...

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...151_10001_99017_-1____ProductDisplayErrorView

...or something from the hardware store? You are kind of mix-matched there if it is the good stuff. I feel the chain and anchor or undersized and the rode migh actually be a little over sized.

We use 3/8 and 7/16 3 twist nylon with 1/4 and 5/16 chain (30 feet) with our Mac and...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-16.html

... use a 22 lb. claw and a 25 lb. Manson Supreme. Our displacement is probably about 4000 lb. loaded. We also have another rode and a Fortress FX-11 as backup. For your boat I'd want at least one of these systems on the boat. I'd consider that danforth as inadequate myself. I want to go to bed and know we are going to be in the same spot in the morning.

For the Endeavour the first purchase was a 35 lb. Manson Supreme to compliment the 35 lb. CQR which will be replaced with a Fortress FX-23.

Anchors and rodes aren't a fun purchase like say a chartplotter, but spend some money on they and at some point you will be really glad that you did. Don't forget they are there for more than just spending a night on the hook. You never know when you might have to use one in an emergency,

Sum

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Sumner · Jan 3, 2012

Squidd said:
Rode was advertised as "1/2" three strand twisted Nylon anchor rode with spliced thimble" 5850# breaking... I hope that's strong enough...

I went 1/2" to be easier on the hands...

That sounds more than adequate. My feeling is that the chain and anchor itself are not if things deteriorated. You need to do what you feel comfortable with. If you are going out for no more than 2-3 days and are very comfortable with the weather forecast you are probably fine. Past that who knows how accurate the forecast will be.

Sum

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Caboteur · Jan 3, 2012

Hi Squidd,
Averages like all statistics make liars out of anybody... your PY26 is definitely not average. It weighs 6400# and has a high freeboard. If you're looking at anchor sizes I'd look at anchors for a 29 or 30 footer: "on average" they are closer to your weight and freeboard!
There are tons of sites on the WEB for you to size your anchor appropriately. For your boat size and cruising area I think the ideal would be a 25# Delta or other plow with 50 feet of 5/16 chain and your 1/2 inch rode.
Your 13# Danforth and plastic covered chain

seem a bit puny for that unannounced blow... Lake Superior can and will get nasty!
If you don't have one already get a good anchor roller and some rubber construction gloves it all helps.
Obviously this is for cruising purposes; for racing see if you can get a plastic anchor and chain that weigh no more than 5# combined and the hell with holding power!
Enjoy cruising
Pierre

Barnacle Bill · Jan 3, 2012

On Superior, it is good to have at least two anchors. or your size boat, a storm anchor could be a 25# plow, but the 13 # Danforth type would be a good general working anchor. And, even a smaller one could be a lunch hook. Most of Superior is sand bottom and so the Danforth or Plow will work well. There are a few places where some folks anchor in rock (Like the Devil's Island Sea Cave area) and that is a good place to lose an anchor because you cannot get them out when stuck between the massive rocks. The best thing is to anchor in sand, but if you have to cut the rode or chain because you cannot retrieve the anchor, then you will see why the second anchor is a good thing.

dscribner · Jan 3, 2012

I have two anchors: a 13 lb Danforth and a similar sized knock-off. If the forecast is pleasant, I use the Danforth. If it's going to get a little hairy, I drop them both on separate rodes. You can also shackle the second anchor to the same chain as the first. It will keep it dug in longer in a blow. I've slept with the rigging humming and singing and have yet to drag. Could be dumb luck though.

Jackdaw · Jan 3, 2012

Bill mentioned this; most places you'll be interested in anchoring will be 15-20 feet of water and sand bottom. Your setup now will be just fine for that. Maybe too much so. I'd get a lunch hook; you'll grow tired of pulling that chain around, especially in deeper water. Do you have an anchor roller on the bow? I'd suggest one with that chain.

After a while you might feel that all that chain and big anchor is a bother... don't go there. Even if you end up using your lunch hook 95% of the time, you'll thank your stars the big boy is on the boat at some point in the future.

Sumner · Jan 3, 2012

Squidd said:
OK I can live with that for now.. This first season I'm pretty sure I'll just be a weekender/daytripper anyway, so good to know I at least have at least "minimal" anchoring gear...

I'll keep my eye out for an upgrade/backup rigging for heavier conditions..

Ok here is a 22 lb claw...

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|33872|66342&id=66359

...for $73.00 and 30 feet of 5/16 chain....

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|32295|321082&id=32482

...for a little under a $100 (more if you want a chain that could work on a windlass, but you probably won't ever have one).

So for about $200 you could have better safer anchoring gear and what you have now as backup. Let's figure you have a 5 month season that is less than $40 a month if you cash it out the first year. I looked for a free shipping deal and then bought the heavy chain.

We went out the first time with the danforth that came with the boat and drug one night. With the better gear with the exception of one night where we might of drug 20 feet or so we have never drug and some of those nights were major blows.

We also would never consider going with only one anchor. We almost lost an anchor once....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-8-Powell-09.html

....and it could still happen in the future. Get good gear and sleep good and enjoy being on anchor. To us getting away from things and being out in a secluded anchorage is what it is all about.

Sum

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sailcruiser · Jan 3, 2012

My old boat was about this size and I would consider the Danforth undersized. It's fine if you stop for a swim or to eat but I wouldn't want to be asleep with it being my only ground tackle especially in bad weather. I always go up at least one size on everything (dock lines, ground tackle etc) because my boats tend to be heavier than the average for the length. My old 24 footer weighed in just shy of 6000# dry. SC

Deadline · Jan 3, 2012

Take at least two spares, since Great Lakes rocks at the bottom are notorious for seizing anchors.

Ross · Jan 3, 2012

I you want to sleep well at night get an anchor system that you don't have any doubts about.

DannyS · Jan 3, 2012

Squidd, all of the places you'll be anchoring in the Apostles are sand bottoms and 9 times out of 10, you'll be anchoring in 15 feet of water. The water is so clear that I always row out to have a good look at the set of the anchor after backing down on it. I have a Manson Supreme and love it. I bought it after using a Fortress (Danforth style) for years without having any trouble, until the one time I had trouble.
The wind shifted 180 degrees (not uncommon) and the rode hooked under one of the bars and pulled the anchor up. We dragged to the point where the keel was tapping bottom. I started my rowing out to have a look ritual after that.
I like the Danforth style for a lunch hook, but I won't sleep on it if I don't have to.

Ross · Jan 3, 2012

I have a 35 pound CQR and 25 feet of 3/8 inch chain and usually set an 8:1 or 10:1 scope for overnighting.