Ethanol IS bad for your engines

[KD3PC]

DOE releases the report on E15 and the reality is that ethanol is bad for your engines and fuel systems....but we already knew that.

Read "http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/516866-report-shows-e15-damage-in-marine-engines" for details....

Now, if we can only get the politicians to grasp this concept and put all that money to a more productive use.

YMMV

 

[Indysailor]

Amen.
I found a station with ethanol free fuel and my little 4hp motor has thanked me with reliable, trouble free service ever since.

 

[sailaway78]

Gas Mileage

Although this isn't directly in line with little outboards, it is interesting. I have a friend who has a new Dodge pickup, with a hemi of course. The owners manual states flatly that expected fuel mileage is 30% less with E15.

 

[Benny17441]

Go to " pure-gas.org " for a listing of gas stations selling Ethanol-Free gasoline in your vicinity.

 

[CrawJac]

The owners manual states flatly that expected fuel mileage is 30% less with E15.

Now it's getting deep, but I wonder if the perceived "advantages" of E15 are enough to compensate for the loss in fuel economy and/or the damage to the system which will cause less efficiency overall? Clearly the manual would not state that if it were not a fact that was studied and measured by Dodge.

Thoughts?

 

[KD3PC]

It ain't getting deep, IF you do your research, you will find that Dodge/Ram/Nice's statement is pretty dead on....Even E10 is good for 10-15% loss of fuel mileage in a car that is built to tolerate it.

there is just not enough energy in the fuel source....ask any drag racer who runs his car on ethanol...completely different fuel

What is there to think about? It was, and still is a poor choice of fuel to replace or add to gasoline. It is expensive, both environmentally as well as chemically to produce. Even more so to transport - as you can not use the current pipeline/infrastructure (it is NOT ethanol proof) and of course the damage it does to non-ethanol proof fuel systems/engines....

 

[Gunni]

No problems with any of my engines using E10. Even my 95 pickup is rated for E10 ethanol. I would have to actively hunt down a fuel station selling E15 (and drive 60 miles to get there). None of our local marinas sell E15, and they won't because marine engines aren't rated for it. Ethanol is an "oxygenater" for fuel - it reduces emissions. And it sure beats the old oxygenater, Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE) which ethanol replaced after we started finding MTBE contaminated drinking water everywhere. That is some seriously dangerous stuff.

 

[sailaway78]

Gunni

I drive an older Mazda MPV, with a 3 liter V6. While I can tell no difference in performance with E10, there is definately a loss of fuel mileage.

 

[JVB]

from BoatUS Membership eLine News December 2011‏

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Seaworthy - Frustrated by E10? Terrified of E15?
The Solution May Be Butanol[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Last fall, the Department of Energy (DOE) released the results of its tests on the effects of E15 on marine engines - inboards, outboards, and I/Os. Without going into detail, all of the engines tested with E15 had problems, including severe damage to components, misfiring, and an increase in exhaust emissions. Two of the three outboards that were being tested conked out before the tests were completed. In contrast, the engines in an E0 control group did not exhibit any fuel-related issues. After reviewing the results, Margaret Podlich, the president of BoatUS, said that while the organization supports the effort to develop renewable fuels, the trend of using higher and higher levels of ethanol is clearly not the solution to America's energy problems.[/FONT]

 

[Water Runner]

I drive an older Mazda MPV, with a 3 liter V6. While I can tell no difference in performance with E10, there is definately a loss of fuel mileage.

And that is caused by the fact that the engine needs to have a variable compression.
Lower compression for gasoline, higher for E15. Instead the engine should either be low compression for gasoline or high compression for E15, not both.

By making an engine that can run both you get an engine that does OKAY doing both but doesn't to 'good' on either one.

 

[Steve Dion]

Yes and the government is still charging you for 100% gas tax on that 85%-90% gas. Now they want the new vehicles to get 50 mpg, I don't think that they can achieve that unless we are driving cracker boxes that weigh in at 2,000 lbs.

 

[bffatcat]

buying ethanol free gas.

Guys
this has nothing to do about clean air, pollution ect: It a political situation. This is a farm subsidy. I cant see any other reason for using this stuff. It costs more and delivers less
Ethanol free gas is used at small airports. They wont sell me any I tried. The people that sell this stuff are under strict orders not to sell ethanol free avation fuel to anyone. They will only pump it into an airplane fuel tank. even if its to fill a 3 gal gas can the answer is no. In my state anyway

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'd vote for a politician who was against ethanol.

Think we'd ever find one?

Maybe we should get all 535 + 100 a boat and see how they like it!

Oh, wait, they most likely have boats already.

 

[Gunni]

There is no "gas tax" Steve. There is a fuel tax. Alcohol increases the octane rating of gasoline, lowers exhaust emissions and at E10 level is perfectly safe for engines. The problem comes when people attempt to store the stuff in vented tanks in a hot, damp bilge. The E85 stuff runs about 105 octane, but because it has less energy you need a high volume fuel system to get enough of it to the engine to keep it running. But never mind that, sticking a gasoline engine in a boat bilge and generating heavier-than-air explosive vapor is a practice long since abandoned by the sailing community. For good reason.

 

[Tim R.]

I buy off-road diesel at the marina that is dyed red. No road tax on it. Highly illegal to have that stuff show up in a road vehicle.

Why couldn't they do the same thing with ethanol free gasoline?

Do they still sell leaded gasoline out west to farmers? The same farmers who grow too much corn and sell it to the government to make ethanol?

 

[Steve Dion]

There is no "gas tax" Steve. There is a fuel tax. Alcohol increases the octane rating of gasoline, lowers exhaust emissions and at E10 level is perfectly safe for engines. For good reason.

The problem is they are screwing us! A gallon of ethanol contains approx. 80,000 BTUs. A gallons of unleaded regular contains about 119,000 BTUs. As a result we get about 33% less energy from ethanol than we do from gasoline.

 

[MrUnix]

The problem is they are screwing us!

I think we screwed ourselves when the nation didn't see (or chose to ignore) the writing on the wall back in the 70's. I say bring on the ethanol.. it will only make people look for alternatives faster!

Cheers,
Brad

 

[Gunni]

The problem is they are screwing us! A gallon of ethanol contains approx. 80,000 BTUs. A gallons of unleaded regular contains about 119,000 BTUs. As a result we get about 33% less energy from ethanol than we do from gasoline.

I think the useful comparison is E10 v. E0. That would be 112,000 BTU/gal. v. 114,000 BTU/gal.. Plus we get a cleaner burning fuel and less engine maintenance. I like seeing the San Gabriels when I'm in town!

 

[vetch]

It's a rip off. And its not "green" at all its is a farm subsidy. The problem is on America if food costs go up we over eat less. In the third world you die.

 

[kenn]

E10 is, on the whole, a reasonable approach for auto fuel. Modern cars run fine on it. I've never had a fuel-related problem with any of my cars and trucks on E10.

But note: ethanol is ecologically sensible ONLY when it's made from agricultural waste - stuff that would just rot otherwise.. When it's made from FOOD (eg corn) it's a poor choice - energy-negative to produce, and food should be used for ... food, not car propellant.

And I'll use only E0 for our outboard; when it takes 2 months to run through a 15 litre tank, ethanol just causes trouble.