Sailing in harbor

[kpgraci]

Some time ago I asked here (or somewhere else?) about marina policies on being under sail in the harbor. When I first rented my slip I thought I read somewhere that my marina disallowed it (I assumed for liability reasons), but I've seen it done nonetheless on a number of occasions.

I think the general consensus was that if the captain was competent it's no big deal and in fact happens all the time.

Up until the last few weeks I agreed. In fact, liability reasons aside, I felt that for some sailing in and out of a harbor was part of the purist's adventure of sailing, and I admired it.

Well, maybe the fumes from that motor running temporarily turn me in to a stink potter, but the last several times I've come back into harbor I was following a boat under sail, and frankly, they make it very difficult to maneuver in the harbor area while there busy tacking and gybing around to get the 'right' angle.

In a limited space it seems to make no sense to try and sail with other boats trying to motor in and out. If your the only one there, fine, but I'm stuck doing 360's trying to avoid hitting someone. I guess I could motor by and around, but I don't want to crowd anyone and be thought disrespectful or dangerous. A few weeks ago I had a boat practically chase me around the harbor, it was really bizarre.

So I'm rethinking my position on this. I'm not about to turn anyone in, just throw it out there that sailing in a confined area with other boaters
may not be the most considerate thing to do.

 

[kloudie1]

Contact him on VHF and ask him which side/where he wants you to pass.. Most folks are aware enough to give ya a clearance call..

 

[Stu Jackson]

Why can't you just slow down or stop? Unless there are wind or current issues involved, of course. We're fortunate enough that there isn't that much activity in our two adjoining marinas. I've practiced sailing in to know I could do it (with the engine in neutral), so that when I HAD to do it, it was a whole lot more comfortable.

I thought I read somewhere that my marina disallowed it

You could also read your own marina by-laws and R&Rs, like your contract, right? - what do they say, in writing?

 

[doehunter]

Every harbor is different. Where I sail, there is very little room for maneuvering. It is also a high traffic area.
Sailing in or out just for fun is just flat disrespectful of other boat traffic. It's only about a quarter mile to open bay but very narrow, not unlike a 2 lane highway. It serves boat traffic to several different marinas, and hundreds of boats pass there everyday.
Would anybody swerve there car on both sides of a 2 lane highway when there's traffic? No.
Rude sailboaters give us all a bad name in the eyes of the motorboaters.
Common sense??
Jim

 

[Stu Jackson]

Just asking: is there a difference between IN the marina compared to Jim's observations about long and narrow entering channels?

F'rinstance, both Berkeley and the two Emeryille Marinas here on the east side of San Francisco Bay have long narrow channels to get to them. Rarely do people sail out (against the wind, tough if not impossible) but lot sail BACK downwind to the entrance to the marinas.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Regardless of what bureaucrats, etc., may say, to me sailing in the harbor means pleasure sailing as in day sailing. It does not mean entering the harbor under sail to go to your slip, or to leave the harbor under sail from your slip, etc. As far as I know, there's no rule that sailboats must have an auxiliary engine aboard, or that a sailboat must have an engine in order to get a slip, but only that it have the capability of moving under its own power (i.e., not towed). If the marina leases a slip to a 20' boat, such as a Cal 20, that must sail to and from its slip to enter and exit the harbor b/c it has no auxiliary, is that a problem for you, or anybody? And if the boat has to tack to line up on the fairway to its slip, is that a problem? Is it a problem only if it is a bigger boat that in some people's opinion should have an engine? Maybe you should sail in yourself so perhaps it wouldn't bother you as much to see someone else doing it.

 

[Winkfish]

Horn or sound signal indicating you want to pass would at least get his attention.

 

[Ross]

Passing is permitted if you sound your whistle one blast or two blasts depending on which side you wish to pass and he MUST respond with the same signal or five blasts which means don't pass me. I don't remember whether it is one whistle for port or starboard but I have heard tugboat skippers respond to a radio request for passing approval with a verbal instruction for two whistles.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't remember whether it is one whistle for port or starboard but I have heard tugboat skippers respond to a radio request for passing approval with a verbal instruction for two whistles.

BoatUS published a hand dandy little guide to this in a letters section to Seaworthy magazine years ago. Instead of trying to remember all the fancy horn signals, they said:

The number of horn signals is based on the side of your boat you intend to pass. One horn for port, two horns for starboard.

Based on the number of syllables in each word.

 

[Ross]

Thanks Stu,
Here is the reg:
Rule but if she does not, she shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient signal.

Rule 34
Maneuvering and Warning Signals​

(a) When vessels are in sight of one another, a power-driven vessel under way, when maneuvering as authorized or required by these Rules, shall indicate that maneuver by the following signals on her whistle:

• one short blast to mean "I am altering my course to starboard";
• two short blasts to mean "I am altering my course to port";
• three short blasts to mean "I am operating astern propulsion".

(b) Any vessel may supplement the whistle signals prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule by light signals, repeated as appropriate, whilst the maneuver is being carried out:

• (i) these signals shall have the following significance:
  • one flash to mean "I am altering my course to starboard";
  • two flashes to mean "I am altering my course to port";
  • three flashes to mean "I am operating astern propulsion".
• (ii) the duration of each flash shall be about one second, the interval between flashes shall be about one second, and the interval between successive signals shall not be less than ten seconds.
• (iii) the light used for this signal shall, if fitted, be an all-round white light, visible at a minimum range of 5 miles, and shall comply with the provisions of Annex I to these Regulations.

(c) When in sight of one another in a narrow channel or fairway:

• (i) a vessel intending to overtake another shall in compliance with Rule 9 (e)(i) indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle.
  • two prolonged blasts followed by one short blast to mean "I intend to overtake you on your starboard side";
  • two prolonged blasts followed by two short blasts to mean "I intend to overtake you on your port side".
• (ii) the vessel about to be overtaken when acting in accordance with 9(e)(i) shall indicate her agreement by the following signal on her whistle:
  • one prolonged, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, in that order.

(d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle. Such signal may be supplemented by at least five short and rapid flashes.
(e) A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel or fairway where other vessels may be obscured by an intervening obstruction shall sound one prolonged blast. Such signal shall be answered with a prolonged blast by any approaching vessel that may be within hearing around the bend or behind the intervening obstruction.
(f) If whistles are fitted on a vessel at a distance apart of more than 100 meters, one whistle only shall be used for giving maneuvering and warning signals.

​

 

[Merlin Clark]

If Mr. Sailboater is zag zagging across a marked channel to get to where he wants to go, doesn't any boat that is traveling in the channel have right of way?
And don't the rules state that channels will be crossed at a 90 degree angle to the channel?
Just asking.

 

[Kings Gambit]

If Mr. Sailboater is zag zagging across a marked channel to get to where he wants to go, doesn't any boat that is traveling in the channel have right of way?

I don't think any vessel. Only if the vessel is restricted in its ability to maneuver or is otherwise a power vessel greater than 65' in length, of if the sailboat is overtaking another boat of some kind. But otherwise some guy in, e.g., a Bertrand 35 returning from a fishing outing is not privileged over a sailboat tacking up a channel.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Well, ya got yur channels and ya got yer channels. What may be "narrow" to some may be huge to others.

Here's an example: In the Berkeley and Emeryville cases I noted above in #5, the channel is less than 100 yards wide. And folks do what I described.

The estaury, OTOH, is way wide enough for the biggest container ships to come in. But on the estauary, folks sail in and out, upwind and downwind (rarely if ever a reach in that section of water). And everyone does [pretty well. A tad of respect and caution and understanding the rules make a big difference.

What I do NOT know, and what someone might in lieu of everyone scattering to go look it up, is the definition of channels and the other stuff, 'cuz KG is on to something.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Rightly or wrongly, I've tacked frequently up the channel going into Los Angeles Harbor, returning from sea, and I can tell you that the day party boats, the ones with birds flocking all around, will give-way to me and the other sailboats. And I don't hear whistle blowing or yelling, or see finger wagging, as they slow to pass clear astern as I tack off in another direction. Any powerboat operator worth a "...." should know what the sailboat is going to do and most likely when it will do it. No problem!!

 

[Merlin Clark]

Well I look at channels like highways/streets/etc where the vehicle (vessel) in the lane (channel) with no stop sign or light has right of was over said goofball (me) trying to cross the highway/street/etc and this keeps me out of trouble.
Our sailing grounds are pretty quiet except for Patrick AFB Yacht Club Saturday morning races in the Banana River and the random "Rodney Dangerfield" blasting down the channel so it's much easier for me to stay off the beaten path.
With our wide spots, sometimes Rodney doesn't see the next marker, thinks I might be in the channel and adjusts accordingly. It's ok, we made a game out of the rock and roll a long time ago. Take it on the quarter, cast aspersions on his heritage and then get back on course.

 

[Merlin Clark]

My post was about crossing, not sailing within the channel. Don't mean to stir anything up.

 

[Kings Gambit]

The sailboat does not have to stay within the boundaries of the channel markers, nor does any vessel that wishes not to if there is navigable water on either side, and there is otherwise no requirement to do so. As I tack up the channel, I'm also usually tacking across it. However, I try to spend most of my time outside the markers if there is room b/c inside the channel markers is where the big container ships that I must keep clear of ride.

 

[Joe]

The sailboat does not have to stay within the boundaries of the channel markers, nor does any vessel that wishes not to if there is navigable water on either side, and there is otherwise no requirement to do so. As I tack up the channel, I'm also usually tacking across it. However, I try to spend most of my time outside the markers if there is room b/c inside the channel markers is where the big container ships that I must keep clear of ride.

I pretty much agree with KG's take here....unless there's a big ass sign saying "no sailing" you can't really expect the normal trailerable daysailor type guy to understand.... I mean you could mention it to him as you pass under power that there's a lot of traffic here for him to be zig zagging across the roadway. Or ask him if he was aware that it was perfectly okay to sail outside the channel markers if he wanted to avoid collision opportunities.

But I certainly wouldn't stress myself out about things I couldn't change. What you can control..... is where and how you go..... do what you have to do to maintain your sanity.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Well I look at channels like highways/streets/etc where the vehicle (vessel) . Take it on the quarter, cast aspersions on his heritage and then get back on course.

Taking it on the quarter is NO fun. When a passing boat throws a big wake, simply turn to parallel the wake and it'll be a LOT calmer. You only bounce in one direction!

 

[Joe]

If Mr. Sailboater is zag zagging across a marked channel to get to where he wants to go, doesn't any boat that is traveling in the channel have right of way?
And don't the rules state that channels will be crossed at a 90 degree angle to the channel?
Just asking.

Never heard that rule.