Electric repower

[Marc Bergmueller]

I am wondering if anyone has recent experience with a diesel to
electric repower? I know past posts haven't been to favorable. I did find some european sites but not to many here in the US. Youtube has some videos but the guy seems like a c*cky bozo.

 

[jepomer]

There is an electric boats forum on Yahoo (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/) that has a wealth of information and experienced people.

Sailboats are the most practical boats to convert since they have a displacement hull, use sails most of the time, use an auxiliary motor primarily for docking, leaving/entering a crowded harbor. Instant on and off in relative silence...

Keep in mind that electric boat applications are at the same level of development as electric automobiles. Battery technology is advancing and is usually the limiting factor. Battery space and costs needs to be balanced. Battery weight will typically equal the weight of the old engine and fuel. There are several kits with motor, mounts, controller that can replace an inboard diesel by "bolting in" (expect some "adapting").

My direct experience has been using a trolling motor (50 pound thrust) on an O'Day 19. Worked very well for up to 4 mph (limits of the 4" pitch). It worked less well for my Capri 22 in higher winds. I could motor for several hours using only 2 golf cart batteries (GC2, 6 volts each). Torqeedo has a series of reliable electric outboards that are comparable to a 5 and 10 hp gas outboard.

Electric propulsion may not be for everyone yet. But it is used in the "Queen Mary", aircraft carriers, submarines, deep sea submersibles, etc. The motor/controller technology is mature.

Energy storage/recharge is the major limiting factor.

 

[Rob19574]

Marc - I did a bunch of reading on this topic just out of pure interest with little to no intent of re-powering in this manner. IF, you only need to motor for an hour max per day-sail and have access to shore-power....have very limited cruise expectations and don't care about the resale value of you vessel, then electric is feasible. There are many, many variables here to consider and questions to ask about why one might want to go this route. Is it to be green? To re-power for less then the cost of a diesel? to design a system with multiple back-ups for power (with no budget?)? How much time do you have to sail; are you a weekend / vacationing sailor or retired with time to wait for wind?

Like I said - it can be done today in many different ways depending on the above questions.

Its a fascinating topic to research and i think we are about 10 years away from the technology making more sense to consider as the gap tightens.

- Rob

 

[FastOlson]

It can work purdy well

Marc,
One of the regulars over on the Ericson owners' site has a thread with the narrative and pics for his very clean looking conversion of his E-27 to electric drive.
pm me if you want the link.
L

(...sailaway10...at...comcast...dott...nett...) with obvious corrections

 

[Marc Bergmueller]

I had looked into it about two years ago. I have a fat heavy Oday 28 with an aging 9.9 hp outboard. Nothing remains of the saildrive and the hole is glassed over. Reverse has always been a problem with the outboard kicking up and rough water brings the outboard out.
I recently looked again a found some claims of 5 or more cruising hrs at 5 kts in a similar boat??? That is about the range of my longest destination. The outboard does about 5.5 -6.0.
I don't want to put 10k into a diesel, I don't think e power would hurt the low value of my boat.
This guy had problems(some I've read before) but claims to have solved them. http://re-e-power.com/

 

[tommays]

There is one sailboat the Alerion 33 Electric done 100% state of the art with Mastervolt’s lithium iron phosphate batteries aat 16000 dollars for the batterys alone

While you dont have to go with the crazy cost batterys its worth looking at because they picked a very good motor and speed control and VS a lot of the Wile E. Coyote jobs i have seen

 

[sailaway78]

I agree that

Electric would work fine, if you primarily day sail, and use the motor just to get in and out of the dock. I just can't see this as a feasible option if you do longer trips of more than a weekend. If your 100 miles offshore, and the wind goes dead calm, possibly for days, how long are you willing to sit there.

 

[zeehag]

why does a diesel necessarily have to cost 10+k to buy and install?? i got my beautiful perkins 4-108 for less than 3k, runs great, and is costing me only 3 loaves of fresh baked bread to install.. and took a year off for cruising and ,,i am loving it all--my engine in my formosa runs great and hasnt cost nearly what most estimates are--find used or reconditioned and shop shop shop....then research, and shop more..

 

[Bill Roosa]

I'm with zeehag

why are we even considering this. It is more expensive, is likely to leave you high and dry:dance:, and takes up a lot of space that is dedicated to other things now.
If the boat was designed for electric then you could recoup some of that space but unless you are going to be rebuilding the engine compartment to handle the batteries you are going to have issues with load balancing the boat. All that weight needs to be centered and low like ahhh the engine is now.
Yea it would be cool but man what a headache to install and deal with. IMHO this is still "first adopter" stuff and needs some maturity (and price reduction) before it makes any sense to use.

 

[Marc Bergmueller]

But I have no engine, no tank, no water heater, no prop shaft, no exhaust = big empty space. Battery bank and motor equal less than that weight. Thats why. My boat is kept on the Nanticoke river, feeds to the Tangier Sound. I don't go far. If discussing this doesn't fit your boating style, don't feel you need to respond. I only asked if there was anything new.

 

[Ross]

Marc, try not to feel too disappointed with the responses. It generally takes about 3/4 ton of batteries to provide the same energy that you would get from a gallon of diesel fuel. I have thought that replacing the ballast with batteries and the engine with a motor would be a fun project but I haven't been able to make it cost effective. Perhaps someone could salvage the battery pack from a Prius that had been wrecked and perhaps also the motor and drive controller. I am fairly well educated but I feel inadequate for engineering such a project. If I were to endevor such a project I would plan a fuel powered generator as backup for some of the situations offered by others. I figure that a gallon of diesel fuel will drive my boat at economy speeds for about 25 miles.

 

[kenn]

As already stated, battery technology is what is holding the 100% e-boat from being practical. I see the more immediate opportunity in hybrid systems, where there's a diesel or gas generator, just a modest battery bank, and an electric drive to the prop.

I recall that one company (Fischer-Panda?) has marketed such a set-up, but can't confirm.

If I had a beater boat to mess with, a bit of funding, and all my weekends free, I would undertake such an experiment...

 

[jepomer]

Marc,

I think you have the right reasons to consider switching to electric. I hope that you do check out the electric boats forum on Yahoo (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/). The forum has a wealth of information and people who have experience converting and building electric boats.

Re-E-Power has an interesting design that would work well for your situation where there is no longer a shaft or sail-drive. (Re-E-Power appears to be coming back from a negative business cycle.) If you reinstall the shaft drive, a kit from Thunderstruck (http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=34) would be very effective.

People on Yahoo's Electric Boat Forum can give you personal experience of the products and the businesses involved. Sometimes the discussions get very technical, but most address the day-to-day issues. Someone is always willing to help.

Yes, you will be on the leading edge of electric boat motor use where most people are not very comfortable. Europe is further ahead due to environmental constraints. Remember you have a sailboat and don't need to motor for a hundred miles. Others may have that need and probably should not convert at this time.

For my wife and me, there is nothing better than using the small trolling motor to come in and go out of our slip with our Capri 22. We can talk and feel much less stressed than when we use the 5 HP gas outboard.

John

 

[Marc Bergmueller]

Well I found this post a sub motor manufacturer about the e re power http://groups.google.com/group/corepower/browse_thread/thread/ef05367eb9a20e02
Its interesting and explains the water intrusion problem. Its a shame that the e re power just won't work because I could have installed it myself. I'm scared to put a prop shaft in the boat plus I have no idea what the cost was. I'm still looking at the sail drive versions
I just joined the yahoo group, just wish yahoo had a different format, I find it difficult to read.

 

[druid]

The Thing that stopped me from going electric was the recharging problem. Remember that if you have a huge battery bank to power for a reasonable time, all that energy has to get BACK into the batteries. I don't think a marina would like it if you plugged in and started drawing 30A or so all night. And of course it's simply not practical for any kind of cruising, where you would be away from any source of recharge for days, and you may need power to get places when the wind isn't blowing.

I DO find electric a GREAT option for the dinghy: a Minn-Kota 40-lb thrust motor pushes me nicely for several hrs on a Group 27 battery, and I can recharge it off the engine, at the dock, or even on the solar panel, if I have lots of time and it's sunny.

druid

 

[walt]

Along the lines of what Driud said.. I have a Coranado 15 that I put a group 24 battery in (along with 100 pounds of concrete - gives some righting moment for this old guy who likes to relax more while sailing) at the bottom of the boat under the mast.

The battery runs a 30 pound thrust trolling motor and it pushes the Coranado along silently at 3.5 mph. Ive been out in a 20 mph wind - goes slow but still makes headway. 30 pound thrust is supposed to use about 30 amps (at 12 volts - about 1/2 hp) so I get maybe 1.5 hours or 5 miles out of the battery. If I run the motor for the whole 1.5 hours, I use maybe 600 watthours. I think a Kwatt hour is maybe $.15 now from the utility company so its very inexpensive to run - maybe a "dime or fifteen cents" to recharge after a typical day.

But.. If I charge the battery with a 20 watt solar panel (which actually is part of the plan), I have to get good sunlight for maybe 30 hours for each 1 hour I run the electric motor. A main application of this boat is to travel with.. so if I use it every day, Ill pretty much have to find an AC source to plug into every day in order to charge the battery (or just not use the electric motor much). Not such a big deal since this boat is very easy to trailer.. but still some hassle.

Works well for the tender or dingy.. Id vote gas for anything larger.

 

[COOL]

I have just finished repowering our 10500lb 36' er from
diesel to electric propulsion. After our first sea trial, we
are absolutely thrilled with the results. Operating the
electric motor is pleasure compared to the diesel.
You do not need to start the motor or warm it up.
It is completely off and silent until you slip it into gear,
then it is instant propulsion. Any amount of thrust you
desire, you do not have to 'rev it up' to keep it from stalling.
Docking and undocking is quiet and controlled, since the motor
has 100% torque at 1 rpm, speed control is very precise.
I assembled the system entirely by myself using components
purchased as a package.
The system is comprised of a 48v DC motor with a 500amp controller
powered by 4 Group 31 Deep Cycle batteries all of which drives the
existing Saildrive leg. I have slightly less than $4000 invested in the
entire set up, including the batteries and a AC powered 48v 15amp charger.
The all up weight is just 300lbs, the heaviest component is one of the
batteries, so it is simple to move things around.
It is not the ideal set up for everyone, but it is perfect for us.
On our 30'er, which I removed the gas inboard from,
I prefer an outboard engine because it is light weight
and completely out of the water when sailing.
But there is some associated hassle of pulling the
motor off the transom and dealing with gasoline.
Everything in sailing involves some compromise.

 

[druid]

The system is comprised of a 48v DC motor with a 500amp controller
powered by 4 Group 31 Deep Cycle batteries all of which drives the
existing Saildrive leg. I have slightly less than $4000 invested in the
entire set up, including the batteries and a AC powered 48v 15amp charger.
The all up weight is just 300lbs, the heaviest component is one of the
batteries, so it is simple to move things around.

Interesting Stuff!

What's the ampacity of the batteries? How much current do you pull at, say, 5 knots? I'm thinking a 15A charger is pretty small - how long do you recharge after a couple hrs of motoring? I assume you have some method of keeping track of how much power you have left in the battery bank?

druid

 

[COOL]

Interesting Stuff!

What's the ampacity of the batteries? How much current do you pull at, say, 5 knots? I'm thinking a 15A charger is pretty small - how long do you recharge after a couple hrs of motoring? I assume you have some method of keeping track of how much power you have left in the battery bank?

The batteries are 105Ah, so they should fully recharge overnight.
I do not have the motor perfectly aligned yet, so I have not
really pushed it hard for any length of time. At this point,
I have no way of monitoring amp draw or battery reserves,
other than simply checking the voltage of the bank.
Others with similar set ups have reported drawing 30-50amps
at 5 or 6 knots, so we would likely be out of 'juice' after
two hours of motoring at speed. I have no expectation of
motoring for hours on end. We have a quick and responsive
boat, and only intend on using the 'auxillery' to get in and out
of the slip. We literally only need about 30 seconds of thrust
either way, and are often able to sail in and out of the slip.
It is just assuring to know we have a little boost available
in a split second if we need it.

 

[gnhbus]

Hi Marc, have you contacted Annapolis Hybrid Marine already ???
Geo