Marine " Rip Offs "

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May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
I am continually amazed at how badly boaters get ripped off by putting the " marine " tag on "stuff". Since I am currently in the Dallas area, and we don't have Tractor Supply stores around Slidell, I was wandering around a Tractor Supply store this morning, mostly just looking. I see fuel filters. Of course these are meant for tractors, so probably won't work on a marine diesel. We all know that marine diesels are different. This particular filter was a filter/water seperator. 15 micron element, clear bowl with drain valve. Good flow rate. Looked quite a bit like a Racor. Except the price was 24.95. Replacement elements were available at the price of 4.95. I also stumbled across a weather station. This little gem had not only wind speed and direction, but had temp. and humidity, would record wind speed and gusts. Plus a bunch of other stuff. Price 90 bucks. Do all boaters run around with a great big sucker sign hanging on them, that only the marine stores can see. Some things do need to be different for boats, no question about that. But a fuel filter. A wind instrument. Give me a break.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
If it does not say Racor, it isn't a Racor. Their stuff is high quality and is not specifically for the marine industry. Considering one is not buying these things every month, I do not find them that out of line.

Take a look at water filters. These elements are made for the masses and the prices can range from a $10 bill to $50 or $60 for just an element.
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Its kind of hard IMHP to knock Racor quality and were would you put this instrument and how long would the display last in the rain

BUT i do agree with you on many things :) when looking for vacuum bagging items the exact same stuff was 1/2 price at of all places AND AIRCRAFT SUPPLY HOUSE :)
 

DannyS

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May 27, 2004
933
Beneteau 393 Bayfield, Wi
tommays,
not to hijack this thread, but what aircraft supply house? I have a vacuum bagging project coming up.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,438
Oday 25 pittsburgh
Franke Water filters

Steve,
You must never had to buy a Franke water filter. Retail is about $110. I picked one up for a client at the contractors price of $85.20 including tax.
I have to say that marine things do have higher prices. I bought some #6 brass rings from Sailrite to install the clew tack and head grommets back on a sail I am recutting. Sailrite wanted $5.20 each. I bought them. Then got really fired up that they cost so much so I looked around. Tractor Supply, $.99 each. I returned Sailrite's brass rings. I do like most of Sailrites stuff but the rings didn't sit well.
think spring...
r.w.landau
 

JerryA

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Oct 17, 2004
549
Tanzer 29 Jeanneau Design Sandusky Bay, Lake Erie
N&E,
Was the weather station the one with the wireless wind module that can be mounted about anywhere, like on the masthead? I remember seeing one on sale for $49 a few weeks ago.

JerryA
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Where was the stuff made? I would bet China. I would not risk my fuel system on a cheap look alike. Weather station may be a nice thing for home.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I pay..

I pay about the same as what some of the Fleet Trucking distributors sell a Racor 2010TM element for.

National Fleet Parts / Racor 2010TM Element = $8.95

Hamilton Marine / Racor 2010TM Element = $9.99 (my cost $8.99)

Defender / Racor 2010TM Element = $9.99
(my cost $8.33)

Racor-Filters.com / Racor 2010TM Element = $8.50

Associated Diesel Inc. / Racor 2010TM Element = $9.40

My best price on a 10 micron Racor element for a 500 series turbine filter, which by the way is not just for marine use, happens to be from a marine retailer..;)

I buy lots of boat stuff from places other than marine retailers though..
 
Aug 16, 2009
1,000
Hunter 1986 H31 California Yacht Marina, Chula Vista, CA
If you didn't feel comfortable relying exclusively on this unit because of its point of origin, it could still be an economical backup.
 

Benny

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Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
Is not a bad thing to look for marine stuff in a non-marine store. I went today to a Camping World store here on I-4 and they had a Xantrex, 40 amp 4 stage, 3 bank battery charger on clearance for $140-$155 depending on wether you were a member of their Gold club or not. The same charger at WM was $329. The funny thing is that I went there last month and the same three units are still sitting on the shelve. RVrs use converter/chargers so they really have no use for a multi-bank charger. Thought about buying one as a spare but decided against it. Risky gamble?
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Some of us

Apparently some of us are just brainwashed into the " Marine " state of mind. How can you just assume that because it isn't a genuine Racor, that it isn't just as good or well made. I can assure you that contractors using diesel machinery use theirs much more and much harder than any diesel auxilary in a sailboat. The question about the display on the weather station being waterproof or not. I don't know. I do know that it wouldn't cost several hundred dollars to make it waterproof, which is the difference in cost. The brass rings are a good indication of the differences. I am not advocating using anything on your boat, that isn't up to the marine environment. But I don't like the idea of paying two or three times the money for the same basic item. As to the made in China question. How many items on the shelf at West Marine do you suppose are made in China.
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
N&E,
One of my favorites was looking for hurricane lamp oil for an overnight we did on a friends Endeavor 32'. WM had a quart (or was it a pint?) of some stuff that must have been gold as it was priced at $18 + tax. Sure, it was the low soot formula with a marine stamp on it. Next door at the KMart/Sears we got a similar sized bottle for about $8.
I have a hurricane lamp on my own boat that I use kerosene in to keep that charming light going in the cabin into the night. Sure the glass chimney can get a bit sooty but it does even with the low soot formula wax as well.
Some things are worth paying extra money for. Some are not.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
I don't care if it's made for marine or not or if it's made in china, BUT if you are going to put a part in a critical place it simply has to be tried and true.
If there was a company that sold swageless fittings and they were half as much as StaLoc, but no one you knew had them, would you put one on your headstay?
Less than $10 for a genuine racor seems nominal.

I will admit I have an irrational anger just looking at 'sailboat' priced things though. I just started dealing with a Taiwan company to build my fitness machines. The furler for my boat is $1000. If it were a bag of parts it would cost $50. Conventional markup puts it at $250. I should design and get a quote on a furler. Maybe I will get into the sailboat parts business.
I'll send Maine Sail one to keep so he can test it. And ask Phil to distribute them.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,063
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I keep saying "My favorite marine store is ACE Hardware!" We have Kubota tractor engines (M25 series diesels). The Kubota dealer is cheaper than a Universal dealer by miles.

What's so hard about smart shopping?:naughty:

Lamp oil at ACE is $8, no soot.

The green propane canisters are a lot less at Payless or Long's Drugs or CVS Pharmacy.

C'mon, I just don't think this is a secret, N&E, or are you just nudging the neanderthals who don't get the idea yet?;)
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
I am all for using non marinized parts when applicable. But my fuel system is not a place I would take a chance. My commercial discounts at many chandleries make it hard to spend time looking elsewhere to save a couple of bucks for questionable quality.

Marine engines are generally run much less than commercial diesels which is why we need a much better filtering system. Commercial diesels "turn over" their fuel in hours. Our fuel sits for months.

I do buy all my compatible engine parts at the local Kubota dealer.

Just because WM carries something doesn't mean it is a quality part. Their zincs that are made in China are useless. I rarely buy anything from WM anymore. The quality has suffered in the last year from the zincs right up to management.
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,944
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Do you have more information on the wind?

I also stumbled across a weather station. This little gem had not only wind speed and direction, but had temp. and humidity, would record wind speed and gusts. Plus a bunch of other stuff. Price 90 bucks. ... A wind instrument. Give me a break.
N&E, I have been looking for buying a weather station for work (to be mounted on land) and was looking at a Davis with the IP module to get the data over the Internet. Cost is around $700.00. Did you get a model # as I searched at Tractor Supply and did not find any. BTW, I love that store.

This is like anything else. A few years ago I have a flex coupling on a log splitter go bad. Replacement parts from Sear we $35.00 and a special order. TSC had equivalent couplers for $3.50 each and $7.00 for the two I needed. I also regularly hit Camping World stores for stuff I need. I did get a hot water heater bypass setup from them this year and it was the same package and all that WM had, but was over 1/2 the cost.

Sometimes you are trying to do something a little different and you need to be more creative with parts than what the marine stores have. I also like Ace as sometimes they have come up with some pretty nifty stuff.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
With...

With some items you do get what you pay for and some are generally only available from a marine supplier. Saving a buck or two and buying hose barbs and below water plumbing fittings from a home center can cost more in the long run....

Yellow brass hose barb failed from corrosion:


This home center valve was less than a year old and the ball had totally disintegrated. PO had installed it when the only valve available was from a home center. He "meant" to replace it when he got a chance:


This valve was installed on the same boat, mine, during the same period. I took these photos last spring when doing a bottom job. Valve was about 4+ years old..


I buy none of my marine wiring from a marine chandlery yet I still buy the same quality at about 1/3 the price or less. You just need to do a little research and shop around..
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
With some items you do get what you pay for and some are generally only available from a marine supplier. Saving a buck or two and buying hose barbs and below water plumbing fittings from a home center can cost more in the long run....

I buy none of my marine wiring from a marine chandlery yet I still buy the same quality at about 1/3 the price or less. You just need to do a little research and shop around..
One of the reasons that "marine grade" stuff is so expensive is that the volume/demand is low. The more people that have no clue and think that the SS hardware at Home Depot is the same as the SS hardware at a chandler make the situation worse. Buying $.05 screws from HD instead of $0.15 screws from a real fastener supplier is folly. After your nickel fastener has failed, and you get the drills, easy-outs, torch etc out to remove the crap you saved a dime on, you get smart ... you go to the chandler to get a proper part ... the screw is now $0.25 not $0.15 ... *IF* the chandler is still in business.

Certainly some * identical* items are much too expensive when they are relabeled. My Onan Generator uses a Kubota engine. The filters in the Onan box, are $35 for and Oil Filter and $60 for the Fuel Filter. After the unit is out of warranty I will look at the parts in Kubota boxes and compare them. I'll save an Onan OEM filter from the genset and cut it apart and do the same with a Kubota OEM filter to see if they are indeed the same. If they are, I buy the least expensive one.

Replacing the Genset is $12,000+ ... filters change out at 200 hour intervals (per Onan) ... less than $0.50 per hour for filters from Onan ... if you change once a year it is $0.26 a day. That is nothing compared to the cost of replacement or repair if a non-OEM filter causes damage.

The bottom line is that unless you *KNOW* that the part from the hardware store is of equal quality to the one you think is too expensive, you cannot make a valid comparison.

I agree with the drop in quality of many items at WM. In many cases they have stopped selling the "Name Brands" and sell cheap knock-offs under the WM(tm) at slightly lower prices. Case in point, grab 4 Shakespeare SS antenna stand-offs and 4 WM(tm) antenna stand-offs. Compare the quality and accuracy of the dimensions. Look at the details. If you cannot see that the Shakespeare parts are built properly and are truly interchangeable and the WM parts are not. Go ahead and buy the WM crap. Notice that every time you lower the antenna the Shakespeare mount works properly, the WM mount does not hold the tension on the pivot bolt, when the antenna is returned to the upright position the mount is loose. Try to remove the $0.05 screws to get at the pivot bolt on the mount you saved $2 on ... if you had gotten the good part to begin with, and used the $0.15 screws you would have no problems.

Most of the people that go on about the "rip-off" prices of marine quality parts and equipment don't know what they are looking at. Sorry if that offends anyone. I used to make a living correcting the damage done by manufacturers and owners that were either trying to save a dime or two or have no idea about quality parts and proper installation.

MS may come across as OCD at times, but I'd bet my life that the stuff on his boat works ... 100% (with the possible exception of that cheap ball valve) ... :)

It seems like we have this debate on a regular basis ... starters, alternators, almost anything that looks similar at a discount store to the part at a marine store. Does anyone think that a boat manufacturer spends 300% more to use Marine rated items for no reason? They would make more money if they used the cheap stuff that some owners buy for their boats.

Two quotes from John Ruskin:
“There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.”

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”
 
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