Sleeping offshore

[capta]

It is very difficult to say this nicely to cruisers and other distance sailors. Why in the fracking hell do you sleep at NIGHT, at sea?? and ? again ?
Wouldn't it make more sense to sleep in the daytime? If you had to wake up to an emergency, wouldn't it be a lot easier to wake up, step up on deck, and be able to see everything within a couple of miles, and all the way to your masthead, immediately? Not like waking up in the wee hours of the morn, searching for a torch, turning on lights which blind you when you look aloft, not that they reach beyond the spreaders anyway, and then being unable to see much around you as your eyes adjust to a bright light source and no light beyond those lights.
Sorry, just saw another post by someone who goes to sleep at dusk, and wakes at dawn.

 

[dlochner]

I assume you are referring to single handed sailors. When we overnight, one person is sleeping, the other on watch. I won't single hand at night because I can't stay awake all night.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Unless someone is on watch 24 h/d, you can’t sleep nor should you.

 

[capta]

Unless someone is on watch 24 h/d, you can’t sleep nor should you.

Whoa there, pard. There are plenty of things we can't and shouldn't do in life, yet we do, like losing a mast to a fishing boat.
It's pretty difficult to circumnavigate alone, nonstop in a race like the GGR, without sleeping sometimes. Circumstances change, and sometimes you lose your crew, and one must move on, without crew, to some other place. Other folks just like sailing alone, and it obviously can be done safely. Sleeping in the day time, when conditions allow, is certainly much safer than sleeping at night, don't you think?
If not, then that is the subject of this post, and I'd love to hear your reasons.

 

[MFD]

Hey @capta

I think the subject you posed here is a little vague. Would suggest retitling it if you have a particular question.

As others have noted, on a fully crewed ship you are usually running watches. Six on, six off, is not uncommon. I think long term mariners have their circadian rhythms permanently decoupled from nature somehow.

With a couple doing an ocean passage on a small boat, our natural human cycles keep us more active during the daylight even when we know we have late night watches to do.

For the solo sailor, after about a week or so (at least for me) it blends into a constant/hazy cycle. The body by nature being more lively during the day.

Plus there are numerous other things to be done such as cooking, inspections, repairs, that are all much easier done with natural sunlight.

 

[capta]

Hey @capta

I think the subject you posed here is a little vague. Would suggest retitling it if you have a particular question.

As others have noted, on a fully crewed ship you are usually running watches. Six on, six off, is not uncommon. I think long term mariners have their circadian rhythms permanently decoupled from nature somehow.

With a couple doing an ocean passage on a small boat, our natural human cycles keep us more active during the daylight even when we know we have late night watches to do.

For the solo sailor, after about a week or so (at least for me) it blends into a constant/hazy cycle. The body by nature being more lively during the day.

Plus there are numerous other things to be done such as cooking, inspections, repairs, that are all much easier done with natural sunlight.

OK, I guess if you are going to sleep through every minute of daylight, this might not work for you.
However, as not only a sailor and yachtmaster, but a ship's master, on the ships I found it much easier to see sailing boats in the daylight. When I'm 50' or so off the water, that stupid masthead tricolor scribing silly circles in the night sky is damn near invisible as a light. And when we did see them, the light being roughly at our eye height, the light appears to be a lot farther away than it is.
This is a FACT, not a suspicion or guess! A sailboat is much better off with the standard red and green bow lights, which normally light the water on the lee side and often the spray on the windward side.
It is fine with me if you prefer to do your sleeping at night, for whatever reason. That is partly the reason for the post. as others may not have thought of this as a more prudent solo sailor's sleeping schedule.
As for watch schedules, I've done 6 on/6 off, 12 on/12 off, 3 on/9 off, 1 on/9 off, and 4 on/8 off, which was my favorite, by far. It really depends on how many are aboard, and able to take a watch.
However, there are those times when the job must be done, and sleep be damned. Thankfully, if adrenaline isn't enough, there are meds that can help one serve a very, very extended watch.

 

[thinwater]

Contentious subject.

But yes, anytime I have singlehanded or short handed, I/we pack as much cat napping and sleep into daylight hours as possible for the reasons Capta stated. Everything is simpler in daylight. Night requires alertness and cognitive ability.

For anyone that has worked the night shift, staying up all night is not that hard. Really. The trick is getting enough sleep during the day and having things to occupy you mind at night.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Whoa there, pard. There are plenty of things we can't and shouldn't do in life, yet we do, like losing a mast to a fishing boat.
It's pretty difficult to circumnavigate alone, nonstop in a race like the GGR, without sleeping sometimes. Circumstances change, and sometimes you lose your crew, and one must move on, without crew, to some other place. Other folks just like sailing alone, and it obviously can be done safely. Sleeping in the day time, when conditions allow, is certainly much safer than sleeping at night, don't you think?
If not, then that is the subject of this post, and I'd love to hear your reasons.

In a former life, I was in the USCG. Suffice it to say I’ve seen some horrible injuries and deaths due in part or wholly to no one on watch. We can all come up with reasons (excuses) why its difficult to avoid but i suspect we agree it’s dangerous, illegal and endangers others.

 

[dLj]

In a former life, I was in the USCG. Suffice it to say I’ve seen some horrible injuries and deaths due in part or wholly to no one on watch. We can all come up with reasons (excuses) why its difficult to avoid but i suspect we agree it’s dangerous, illegal and endangers others.

I will suggest we all agree - what @capta is suggesting is for solo long distance sailors the less dangerous would be to aim the needed sleep in the day light hours rather than nighttime hours. On sailing legs lasting more than a couple days, sleep is required, I don't care who you are.

I used to solo sail a lot. I would use what is called polyphasic sleep. I would sleep for 15 minutes, wake up, check all systems and then horizon etc - then sleep again for another 15 minutes. This was done 24/7. It might sound bad but one actually gets used to it within a couple days. It is considered the best method for solo sailors and sleep.

An excellent resource:

https://sss-archive.sfo3.digitaloceanspaces.com/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition2.pdf

dj

 

[24jmanley]

The latest sleep research says we sleep in 1.5 hour cycles, so napping in those increments is optimal. But, ~5nm visibility to the horizon and making 5knots is only an hour to anything you see and that logic doesn’t account for other vessels moving towards you.

So it’s about assessing risk and using tools like radar and AIS mitigates that risk the best we can.

To address the OP’s question, I sleep whenever I can based on where I am and the level of traffic around me making an effort to sleep for an hour and a half (set an alarm) to check the sails and the horizon. I set the AIS and radar to alarm as well. At night I always have a light on me and do the best I can to maintain night vision.

 

[Windpilot]

It really also depends on where you are sailing. Coastal is much more difficult singlehanded compared to open ocean crossings. My sail to Hawaii and back to CA was easier, never saw a single thing for over 2 weeks after leaving the coasts, can't see a thing at night if its overcast anyway. I slept whenever I could, day or night especially if the wind was relatively lighter and I slowed the boat down to about 5 knots or less with reduced sail. My AIS alarms and radar alarms never went off offshore. Coastal ( CA to Mexico and back) was different but I was able to stop and rest every few days. Sleep was done in short bursts, daytime obviously the better time.
When I think about it on land, like we are doing here in this discussion, I don't know how I did it, it sounds difficult. The reality is you enter a different world offshore, your body adjusts to the challenge, its not something everybody could do, but im here to say lots of us singlehanded sailors do it, in fact we're hooked to it, dream about it, do not want crew and all the singlehanders I know survive just fine.
You'd be surprised how well you can see things on your boat in pitch blackness lit up by your running lights only. Add your anchor light and deck light you'll be very lit up barreling through the darkness.
I found it bizarre when I couldn't tell the ocean from the sky, complete blackness except for the bow wake lit by forward running lights, at the stern also.
I freaking loved it....

 

[capta]

I will suggest we all agree - what @capta is suggesting is for solo long distance sailors the less dangerous would be to aim the needed sleep in the day light hours rather than nighttime hours. On sailing legs lasting more than a couple days, sleep is required, I don't care who you are.

I used to solo sail a lot. I would use what is called polyphasic sleep. I would sleep for 15 minutes, wake up, check all systems and then horizon etc - then sleep again for another 15 minutes. This was done 24/7. It might sound bad but one actually gets used to it within a couple days. It is considered the best method for solo sailors and sleep.

An excellent resource:

https://sss-archive.sfo3.digitaloceanspaces.com/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition2.pdf

dj

I also used to wake every 12 minutes at night, using an old fashioned kitchen timer, when sailing alone offshore. I gravitated to daytime sleeping once I began trusting GPS, as I no longer needed the daytime for celestial navigation.

 

[capta]

In a former life, I was in the USCG. Suffice it to say I’ve seen some horrible injuries and deaths due in part or wholly to no one on watch. We can all come up with reasons (excuses) why its difficult to avoid but i suspect we agree it’s dangerous, illegal and endangers others.

I'm not so sure I agree with illegal as, to the best of my understanding, in international waters, there are no "laws". There are international marine agreements, but they primarily concern commercial shipping.
I see solo sailing as something which would have only the minutest possibility of endangering others, offshore. It would be much more likely that the solo sailor's boat would strike a container or another vessel of greater size and tonnage.
Quite honestly, I've always felt very safe offshore. Or at least a heck of a lot safer than those ashore who are surrounded by impatient, discourteous, and mostly just dumbass drivers, commuting to and from work at 70 mph, within inches of each other.
I don't know, perhaps we all measure danger in different ways.

 

[Will Gilmore]

But, ~5nm visibility to the horizon and making 5knots is only an hour to anything you see and that logic doesn’t account for other vessels moving towards you.

When crossing, one is more likely to encounter ships than others sailors. Radar and AIS with alarms are a big help, but with ~5 to 15nm visibility (considering the height of lights and radar), a big ship is probably traveling over 30 knots. 15 min intervals of picking your head up and looking around is a maximum interval.

-Will

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I'm not so sure I agree with illegal as, to the best of my understanding, in international waters, there are no "laws". There are international marine agreements, but they primarily concern commercial shipping.
I see solo sailing as something which would have only the minutest possibility of endangering others, offshore. It would be much more likely that the solo sailor's boat would strike a container or another vessel of greater size and tonnage.
Quite honestly, I've always felt very safe offshore. Or at least a heck of a lot safer than those ashore who are surrounded by impatient, discourteous, and mostly just dumbass drivers, commuting to and from work at 70 mph, within inches of each other.
I don't know, perhaps we all measure danger in different ways.

Your last sentence is true. Perhaps because of my CG experiences, I tend to look at why and how accidents occur, not just the likelihood.
As for offshore waters, negligence and culpability apply regardless of where as does liability of a captain.

I personally don’t ascribe to the “do you feel lucky…” approach to safety at sea.

 

[dLj]

Your last sentence is true. Perhaps because of my CG experiences, I tend to look at why and how accidents occur, not just the likelihood.
As for offshore waters, negligence and culpability apply regardless of where as does liability of a captain.

I personally don’t ascribe to the “do you feel lucky…” approach to safety at sea.

@Don S/V ILLusion With all due respect, and the desire to learn - what would your suggestion be for solo sailors in terms of sleep? It's easy to say what one shouldn't do - but it's far better to offer suggestions as to how better to do things.

So, in your experience, what would be the better choices/options for solo sailors?

dj

 

[capta]

When crossing, one is more likely to encounter ships than others sailors. Radar and AIS with alarms are a big help, but with ~5 to 15nm visibility (considering the height of lights and radar), a big ship is probably traveling over 30 knots. 15 min intervals of picking your head up and looking around is a maximum interval.

-Will

Many modern ships use "slow steaming" which is a practice of reducing speed to 12–19 knots to save fuel. I used to use 18 knots as the average speed of commercial vessels as above, and adding my speed, 6 to 10 knots, converging speed can be 24 knots to 29 knots.Not much time for a nap.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

@Don S/V ILLusion With all due respect, and the desire to learn - what would your suggestion be for solo sailors in terms of sleep? It's easy to say what one shouldn't do - but it's far better to offer suggestions as to how better to do things.

So, in your experience, what would be the better choices/options for solo sailors?

dj

Fair question. Being hove to would be safer than any other option short of “I wouldn’t do it”.

Having said that, I still recall pulling bodies out of the water (father and teenage daughter) after being rammed while in fog the previous day by an offshore tug off of Block Island. Sorry if I sound cynical but it’s not easy to forget the scene of the wife and brother waiting on the dock for us. It’s a choice, not a necessity to take that risk.

 

[dLj]

Fair question. Being hove to would be safer than any other option short of “I wouldn’t do it”.

Having said that, I still recall pulling bodies out of the water (father and teenage daughter) after being rammed while in fog the previous day by an offshore tug off of Block Island. Sorry if I sound cynical but it’s not easy to forget the scene of the wife and brother waiting on the dock for us. It’s a choice, not a necessity to take that risk.

I don't see it as being cynical. Those kinds of experiences are there forever.

A couple observations - in the scenario you've described - I would agree heaving to sounds like a better option. Fog, near shore, high traffic area. I would not sleep in those conditions and continue to sail.

But hundreds of miles off shore with limited to no shipping - is a different scenario.

dj

 

[Davidasailor26]

Fair question. Being hove to would be safer than any other option short of “I wouldn’t do it”.

Having said that, I still recall pulling bodies out of the water (father and teenage daughter) after being rammed while in fog the previous day by an offshore tug off of Block Island. Sorry if I sound cynical but it’s not easy to forget the scene of the wife and brother waiting on the dock for us. It’s a choice, not a necessity to take that risk.

Risks should be consciously understood and balanced though. Being hove to reduces your risk of running into someone else, but does not significantly reduce your risk of being run into. Also, being hove to for 4 hours per day is going to extend a passage significantly, which means you’ll be on the water longer, still subject to shipping traffic, and more vulnerable to other risks like weather.

Tragic as that tug situation must have been, the advantages of current technology provide some significant mitigations. A tug would almost certainly be transmitting AIS and would trip collision alarms many miles in advance. Even if not a radar would easily see it and could provide an alarm. Certainly keeping a good watch would be another countermeasure, and in fog probably a worthwhile one anyway, but how much would it reduce the risk, and how does that compare to the risk of going offshore at all?