Buying new flares this year?

Rich Stidger

Rich Stidger

.
Feb 10, 2004
4,096
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
Just a heads up..... Before you go to a marine store or order on-line from one, check out the price of Orion HP Alert 12 gauge Marine flares at Wal-Mart. They are the latest model 539 flares and mine had an expiration of 37 months out of a possible 39 months. Can't get much fresher than that.
W-M isn't my regular go-to for marine supplies, but a Google hit got me to look. Price- $27.83. No hazard shipping cost, just your sales tax.
 
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R

Rick486

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Oct 1, 2007
1,865
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Rich Stidger said:
Just a heads up..... Before you go to a marine store or order on-line from one, check out the price of Orion HP Alert 12 gauge Marine flares at Wal-Mart. They are the latest model 539 flares and mine had an expiration of 37 months out of a possible 39 months. Can't get much fresher than that.
W-M isn't my regular go-to for marine supplies, but a Google hit got me to look. Price- $27.83. No hazard shipping cost, just your sales tax.
Click to expand
The only thing about Wal-Mart is my concern about knock offs, and proper handling of goods. The only items I once bought from Wal-Mart were tennis balls and golf balls. Over a period of time I came to notice that the performance of those items did not match the similar items I bought at the tennis club and the golf course. One day I had a long dicussion with one of our tennis pros about Wal-Mart tennis balls. He dug into this to find out how Wal-Mart could sell tennis balls in particular at such a discount. He explained to me that Wal-Mart tennis balls were typically not maintained at the proper temperature and humidity which affected their elasticity. Essentially they were selling poor quality ball at a discount. I assume something similar on the golf balls because there is definitely different performance of the same ball.
Personally I would buy safety item only from a seller who has a better reputation than Wal-Mart.
So, YMMV and caveat emptor.
Rick
 
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Rick Webb

Rick Webb

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Jun 2, 2004
3,501
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Always check the date when you buy flares.

I have found out of date flares on the shelf at WalMart and even West Marine.

Rotating the stock is not something they apparently think of.
 
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thinwater

thinwater

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Mar 26, 2011
3,670
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I bought an electronic flare 6 years ago. So a few dollars for batteries every other year.

My motivation was the stale flares at WM. Also, it was on sale for $60, so it is paid for by now. Done.
 
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Rich Stidger

Rich Stidger

.
Feb 10, 2004
4,096
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
thinwater said:
I bought an electronic flare 6 years ago. So a few dollars for batteries every other year.

My motivation was the stale flares at WM. Also, it was on sale for $60, so it is paid for by now. Done.
Click to expand
I considered that solution, but the electronic "flares" are really "LOCATE" devices with a range of maybe 2 miles or so. The pyrotechnic flares are "ALERT" devices with a visual range of about 20 miles. According to what I have read, the ALERT devices will be visible and the LOCATE devices will let a rescue party zero in on you.
So for my application I felt that the pyrotechnic devices were a better choice.
 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,542
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Rich Stidger said:
I considered that solution, but the electronic "flares" are really "LOCATE" devices with a range of maybe 2 miles or so. The pyrotechnic flares are "ALERT" devices with a visual range of about 20 miles. According to what I have read, the ALERT devices will be visible and the LOCATE devices will let a rescue party zero in on you.
So for my application I felt that the pyrotechnic devices were a better choice.
Click to expand
I’ve seen 12 gauge style flares used in practice. Maybe someone could see it from 20 miles, but only if they’re looking in exactly the right direction in the few seconds the flare is visible. My preference would be to have someone within a couple miles (close enough to help me) able to see me for the extended runtime of the electric flare, rather than hoping someone 20 miles away will be able to see the aerial flare, recognize it for what it is, and get help to me.
 
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jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,746
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
It makes sense David. I too would like some one within 2 nm to see my electric flare and come rescue me. I think there was a Stones song with a message… “You can’t always get what you want….”
I carry solas flares for the possibility of alerting a boat near the horizon to come and investigate. I carry the Electronic Flare to identify me in the water. I carry A hand held radio to shout out, and a PLB to attempt to reach those that may be ignoring my other shoutouts.

You can only try the best you can.
 
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Tally Ho

Tally Ho

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Jan 7, 2011
5,446
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I have an electronic flare, which meets regs. And I have some out of date flares on Board.
I have tested the aerial flare at home on the 4th of July…they may get someone’s attention, but only if the are looking. They don’t stay airborne all that long.

Greg
 
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Rick Webb

Rick Webb

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Jun 2, 2004
3,501
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
12 gauge flares are really almost a joke.

The handheld flares are much brighter, burn longer and are more reliable. Sure, there is a potential that an aerial flare might be seen further away but if you know to light a flare off because you can see someone they can see you as well.
 
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Dalliance

Dalliance

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Oct 6, 2007
1,118
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
I switched to the Coast Guard approved electronic flare last year. For me, basically just day sailing, it meets the requirements without the ever expanding collection of expired flares.
 
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MikeHoncho

MikeHoncho

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Dec 28, 2015
1,897
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
Rich Stidger said:
I considered that solution, but the electronic "flares" are really "LOCATE" devices with a range of maybe 2 miles or so. The pyrotechnic flares are "ALERT" devices with a visual range of about 20 miles. According to what I have read, the ALERT devices will be visible and the LOCATE devices will let a rescue party zero in on you.
So for my application I felt that the pyrotechnic devices were a better choice.
Click to expand
There is some research that goes against this thought process.
 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,542
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
For those that haven’t seen a 12 gauge flare in action - this was during our club’s sock burning last year. People bring old flares to get some practice and show each other how to use them.

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by David Arty

photos.app.goo.gl photos.app.goo.gl
 
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dLj

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,214
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Rick Webb said:
but if you know to light a flare off because you can see someone they can see you as well.
Click to expand
This does not seem to be the case - read the account of Kristen saving Tapio in the most recent GGR. She stated she had a really hard time seeing him and he had to direct her to where he was. He could see her for quite some time before she could see him, and they both knew she was coming to save him supported by communications with the race committee.

It's really hard to see someone, even on a life raft, from another boat.

dj

p.s. I was just talking with a well sailed couple speaking about having a green laser that can be pointed at a boat as its visible for several miles and helps direct a boat to your location. Interesting additional piece of equipment...
 
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jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Rich Stidger said:
Just a heads up..... Before you go to a marine store or order on-line from one, check out the price of Orion HP Alert 12 gauge Marine flares at Wal-Mart. They are the latest model 539 flares and mine had an expiration of 37 months out of a possible 39 months. Can't get much fresher than that.
W-M isn't my regular go-to for marine supplies, but a Google hit got me to look. Price- $27.83. No hazard shipping cost, just your sales tax.
Click to expand
Thanks for this! I'm a big fan of WalMart, but I wouldn't have thought to look there for flares.
 
smokey73

smokey73

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Oct 26, 2010
2,103
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Interesting discussion. I carry an electronic flare plus hand held and 12 gauge flares in a hard box (expired but inspected annually). A few points.
So you are worried about storage in transport and then for the up to 42 months you have "climate controlled" storage on the boat? Transport and store storage is not my biggest concern. Expiration date is a concern though.

What is best for sighting a distressed sailor? Do the best we can with what we can safely carry is my thought. Here are thoughts from a USCG Rescue Swimmer from "Soundings" (I assume I can post the link since it is open source material). His thoughts only but based on some experience we probably don't all have.

 
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dLj

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,214
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
smokey73 said:
Interesting discussion. I carry an electronic flare plus hand held and 12 gauge flares in a hard box (expired but inspected annually). A few points.
So you are worried about storage in transport and then for the up to 42 months you have "climate controlled" storage on the boat? Transport and store storage is not my biggest concern. Expiration date is a concern though.

What is best for sighting a distressed sailor? Do the best we can with what we can safely carry is my thought. Here are thoughts from a USCG Rescue Swimmer from "Soundings" (I assume I can post the link since it is open source material). His thoughts only but based on some experience we probably don't all have.

Click to expand
So my question is - do you have your flares located in your "ditch bag"? The ditch bag is the one you grab as you are about to release your life raft because your boat is going down to the bottom. Does your life raft contain flares? Check your raft contents. How do you know if those are the same kind you've practiced with? (you have practiced, right?)

How many flares to you have? Just some things to check... I'm rather liking the green laser idea - runs for many hours, can be switched on and off, used as needed...

dj
 
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smokey73

smokey73

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Oct 26, 2010
2,103
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
Great points @dLj These discussions let us refine our thnking. I have a ditch bag, but my spare flares are in the box I desribed (to keep them from bounching around and damaging them.0 I have practiced both the 12 guage flares and the hand held but I can't tell you for sure if they were the same manufacturer. I don't have "smokes" but should probably get them. I like the idea of the green laser. I"m not sure the person would recognize it if if was the only thing you flashed but if there is a rescue underway the laser might aid in precise location. You could also flash SOS with a laser since you can turn it on and off but you have to know precisely where to aim it. You can flash SOS with that with a bright flashlight too and the beam width would be much larger. Having a bag of trick and using the tricks in the right circumstances is the key.
 
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B

Blitz

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Jul 10, 2007
701
Seidelmann 34 Atlantic Highlands, NJ
One of the key things with using the the 12 gauge flares is to shoot the first two within a minute or so of each other. According to the Coast Guard that is recommended - assume for getting attention and pin pointing the location for rescuers.

The Laser type would work as well. I don't think they are Coast Guard approved.
 
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