Looking for advice on a boat

[artleyt115]

Welcome to SBO.
As observed by @dlochner concern about the location of gel cracks under the mast step is at least a 4 out of 5.
As @Don S/V ILLusion mentions the gel cracks on the surface leads to an inspection of the structure underneath. Gel Coat serves as the water barrier between the inside and outside of the boat. The boat primary purpose is to "Keep the Water outside of the boat".

I suspect it will be a "Pair of Kids in a Candy Boat yard". It would be a idea to take @Scott T-Bird up on his offer. I am certain when you head home you will either have found your boat or have a great knowledge about how to look for the boat.

Looking at the additional pictures, I would conjecture:

• the 27 leads me to believe the boat was used in a fleet of rentals. Either a youth program or a lake boat rental operation.
• the design of the hand rails would lead me to inspect how they are secured to the deck. I appears there is a screw or bolt running down from the top into the square base. This would be a path for water to get into the square block of wood or if through bolted into the cabin and or deck core. This would contribute to moisture destruction of the core and soft decks.
• The standing rigging (what can be seen) does not raise any red flags. This is another critical area. The way it connects to the mast and the deck are what holds that heavy mast in the air. These are a critical inspection area.
• @Timm R Oday25 explained about his boats issue with the "chainplate" connection in the boat. The critical point raised was his experience with wood rot. On these older boats it is a natural occurrence brought on by maintenance neglect or deferral.
• Sails are the engine power to your boat. They will cost more than a new outboard. Budget in new sails as there is a likelihood the ones on the boat are more blown out than grandma's bloomers.

Older boats can be a path into boat ownership and sailing experience. Like buying a wrecked car and rebuilding it. There will be expense and frustration. They are never an investment that will fund you retirement. They can bring a whole lot of fun to your life.

Come to some solid (perhaps even written down) agreement with your friend about the boat. The planned use and share of expenses. Good friends are more difficult to find than boats. Don't let a boat partnership get in the way of your friendship.

Have fun. Sailing is a great way to enjoy the water.

Thank you for the insight, I think when I do look at the boat I will take off this plate and inspect for signs of water damage. As well as the interior of the boat for that support. From what the seller informs me is that there isnt any rot on the support nor on the wood underneath it. But I will find out when I see it for myself. Though my friend and I have had this sorta dream for a very long time, almost a decade now.

 

[Apex]

check the chainplates carefully. signs of water intrusion there will required fix before sailing.

 

[dlochner]

Thank you for the insight, I think when I do look at the boat I will take off this plate and inspect for signs of water damage.

Generally sellers frown on disassembling the boat prior to purchase. Professional surveyors will not remove anything that is screwed down, I would encourage you to do the same. If the plate to which you are referring is the mast step, absolutely do not attempt to remove it.

If there is water leaking or core damage it will have to be found by noninvasive and nondestructive methods. If there are leaks there will be evidence unless the boat has been kept indoors and/or been recently detailed.

Wet cores can be detected by tapping with a plastic hammer or a screwdriver handle. Dry solid core with sound clear and sharp, wet core will sound duller. Look for color staining on the wood work. Water seeping under varnish will turn the varnish to a tan color, about like coffee with extra cream. Water spots on metal fittings that should be dry. Clean streaks through an other wise dirty area can indicate water leaking and leaving a clean trail. Look for poorly sealed fittings, a big clue is sealant around the joint, has it been applied between the fitting and the boat or smeared around the outside. If the latter it will leak and probably did leak.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Awesome! I'll have to grab my friend and take him down to take a look (he'll be like a kid in a candy store) I was also looking at some of the McGregor 26. I love the idea of the X and M but they are way too pricey but I do really like the D and S models. Do you happen to have any advice on those?

If I were you, I would look at the D & S models. I, like most sailors, am not fond of the X and M models. Do some research to find out if you have any interest in a cheaply made power/sailer cross breed.

 

[Richard19068]

less than a year old

That's a plus!

 

[dLj]

I was also looking at some of the McGregor 26. I love the idea of the X and M but they are way too pricey but I do really like the D and S models. Do you happen to have any advice on those?

I had the original McGregor 26D - I sailed it in the Gulf of Mexico to the Georgian Bay and tons of places in between. It was a really great trailerable boat with the water blast, towing was a breeze. Could be launched and hauled easily. Sailed well enough. My brother and I had a blast sailing that boat. Often sailed with girlfriends so there might have been four people on board on numerous trips. Certainly no frills, had a two burner alcohol stove, portapottie, pop top so when you were anchored you could stand up in the main saloon area.

By now they are getting on the older side, I'd check the water blast very carefully for integrity. Of course the rest of the sails, rigging and all that. I think they would make a great boat to learn to sail on.... Certainly ought to be cheap enough to buy these days. Cheap to use, you just keep them on the trailer
...

dj

 

[artleyt115]

Generally sellers frown on disassembling the boat prior to purchase. Professional surveyors will not remove anything that is screwed down, I would encourage you to do the same. If the plate to which you are referring is the mast step, absolutely do not attempt to remove it.

If there is water leaking or core damage it will have to be found by noninvasive and nondestructive methods. If there are leaks there will be evidence unless the boat has been kept indoors and/or been recently detailed.

Wet cores can be detected by tapping with a plastic hammer or a screwdriver handle. Dry solid core with sound clear and sharp, wet core will sound duller. Look for color staining on the wood work. Water seeping under varnish will turn the varnish to a tan color, about like coffee with extra cream. Water spots on metal fittings that should be dry. Clean streaks through an other wise dirty area can indicate water leaking and leaving a clean trail. Look for poorly sealed fittings, a big clue is sealant around the joint, has it been applied between the fitting and the boat or smeared around the outside. If the latter it will leak and probably did leak.

I didn't even thing to tap it, I primarily work on metal but when I have worked with rotted wood I'd check for swelling, discolor, softness but thank you for tips! I'll do my best not to trouble him.

 

[artleyt115]

check the chainplates carefully. signs of water intrusion there will required fix before sailing.

check the chainplates carefully. signs of water intrusion there will required fix before sailing.

Gotcha! will check this too

 

[artleyt115]

I also wanna say thank you to all for the fast and friendly responses!

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I've owned my O'Day 25 for four years now. I have similar cracks around my chainplate. There's a good chance the wood is wet. Wet wood can have strength but nobody knows how much and for how long. Here are a few key areas to check:

• Chainplates - The side ones are the most prone to water intrusion if they aren't sealed properly. On my boat, the wood bulkhead was dry but I could still stick a screwdriver through it. Replacing the bulkhead is work but it's not a complicated project. You'll want to reseal the chainplates every few years
• Transom - The lower gudgeon bracket constantly dips in and out of the water. I tore mine to pieces during a storm. When I went to replace it, water dripped out of the bolt holes in the transom. There were zero signs of sealant hence the wet wood. Event with a good mask, grinding fiberglass with your head in a small, enclosed space is not fun
• Centerboard - This boat does not sail well without the centerboard. To replace it, you'll have to have a boat yard lift the boat in the air, or more preferable, put it on a cradle that allows you to access it for a few days
• These boats are far easier to handle with the inboard. I have both a Saildrive and a 9.9 outboard. It's a night and day difference
• Do you see any signs that the deck fittings have been rebedded? If not, I'd be willing to bet that parts of the deck are wet. Rebedding took me the majority of the winter and part of the spring. It was a big project
• Bilge - Make sure you dont see any unsealed screws in the bilge. It's not difficult to repair but if water gets into the keel it can crack in the winter. Mine did this when we hit -30F. After repairing I drilled drain holes in the keel in the fall and patched them in the spring
• Foredeck - Check for sunken nuts and washers in the anchor locker. It's a sign of rotting core. You'll probably see water stains around the fasteners
• Unless the seller has receipts of the standing rigging having been replaced in the last 10-15 years, you'll want to do that. That number can vary depending on usage. Look up D and R marine for parts
• Does the trailer have a tongue extension? It was very difficult to launch and impossible to retrieve before I added one

There is absolutely no way you can tow this boat with that Outlander. Especially with that heavy duty trailer. I tried towing mine with an xterra. It nearly killed me. A Ram 2500 and F250 Super Duty P/U did OK but it was far from a dream rig

Overall the O'Day is a decent boat. Simple systems, many of which are low maintenance. It's certainly not the fastest but it sails alright and it handles storms better than expected. There have been a LOT of repairs to mine. It's definitely been a learning experience which has been made possible by the kind folks on this forum

 

[artleyt115]

I've owned my O'Day 25 for four years now. I have similar cracks around my chainplate. There's a good chance the wood is wet. Wet wood can have strength but nobody knows how much and for how long. Here are a few key areas to check:

• Chainplates - The side ones are the most prone to water intrusion if they aren't sealed properly. On my boat, the wood bulkhead was dry but I could still stick a screwdriver through it. Replacing the bulkhead is work but it's not a complicated project. You'll want to reseal the chainplates every few years
• Transom - The lower gudgeon bracket constantly dips in and out of the water. I tore mine to pieces during a storm. When I went to replace it, water dripped out of the bolt holes in the transom. There were zero signs of sealant hence the wet wood. Event with a good mask, grinding fiberglass with your head in a small, enclosed space is not fun
• Centerboard - This boat does not sail well without the centerboard. To replace it, you'll have to have a boat yard lift the boat in the air, or more preferable, put it on a cradle that allows you to access it for a few days
• These boats are far easier to handle with the inboard. I have both a Saildrive and a 9.9 outboard. It's a night and day difference
• Do you see any signs that the deck fittings have been rebedded? If not, I'd be willing to bet that parts of the deck are wet. Rebedding took me the majority of the winter and part of the spring. It was a big project
• Bilge - Make sure you dont see any unsealed screws in the bilge. It's not difficult to repair but if water gets into the keel it can crack in the winter. Mine did this when we hit -30F. After repairing I drilled drain holes in the keel in the fall and patched them in the spring
• Foredeck - Check for sunken nuts and washers in the anchor locker. It's a sign of rotting core. You'll probably see water stains around the fasteners
• Unless the seller has receipts of the standing rigging having been replaced in the last 10-15 years, you'll want to do that. That number can vary depending on usage. Look up D and R marine for parts
• Does the trailer have a tongue extension? It was very difficult to launch and impossible to retrieve before I added one

There is absolutely no way you can tow this boat with that Outlander. Especially with that heavy duty trailer. I tried towing mine with an xterra. It nearly killed me. A Ram 2500 and F250 Super Duty P/U did OK but it was far from a dream rig

Overall the O'Day is a decent boat. Simple systems, many of which are low maintenance. It's certainly not the fastest but it sails alright and it handles storms better than expected. There have been a LOT of repairs to mine. It's definitely been a learning experience which has been made possible by the kind folks on this forum

Thank you so much for this information! from the sounds of it, you've had a wild ride with your boat. I will make sure to check these areas when I take a look at it. I've certainly learned a lot from this and appreciate your experience

 

[Tally Ho]

Awesome! I'll have to grab my friend and take him down to take a look (he'll be like a kid in a candy store) I was also looking at some of the McGregor 26. I love the idea of the X and M but they are way too pricey but I do really like the D and S models. Do you happen to have any advice on those?

I tried a test sail on a 26X a long time ago…I also thought the 26M was a cool idea. I found a guy with a a26X who was willing to take me for a sail on Lake a Michigan.

I decided after that test sail that the water-ballast 26X and M were not for me.

I have never been a traditional Mac 26, but I hear the sail pretty decent.

I have a 34 year old O’Day 322, and she has lots of gel coat cracks and other items of “character”. But nothing structural or serious. I wouldnt let gel coat cracks stop me from buying a boat.

But make sure there isn’t anything seriously wrong with the boat.

Cheers,

Greg

 

[Joe]

Awesome! I'll have to grab my friend and take him down to take a look (he'll be like a kid in a candy store) I was also looking at some of the McGregor 26. I love the idea of the X and M but they are way too pricey but I do really like the D and S models. Do you happen to have any advice on those?

The S and D are much better pure sailboats. If I were keen on sailing, I'd limit my choice to those models of the 26. The X and M have a particular appeal to some (especially newbies) because they seemingly fill two roles as a sailboat and a power boat. Unfortunately, neither role is satisfied. (bring on the flamers!) I highly recommend you research the bejeezus out of this subject. You will find a lot of heated opinions on it..... right here, even.

Looking at your shot of the mast base cracks. That can be expected and is fixable. What you really want to know is the integrity of the support beneath the deck. There should be a compression post inside, between deck and keel. There will be a reinforced arch imbedded into the deck and supported by the compression post. If you have access to a moisture meter you would want to test the areas. You can also use the "tap, tap" method to search for signs of moisture intrusion. Again, unless there is some very obvious softness in the deck, it's not an issue that can't be attended to. You want to check all areas where the rigging connects to the boat...often referred to as chainplates. Oday's have a really good reputation in the sailboat community. Just compare the quality of fixtures with the lightweight X and M. NIght and Day.

 

[dLj]

Look I quite like the O'Days. But the OP is looking to sail on Lake Wallenpaupack and other inland lakes here in the NY/PA region and then possibly expanding to the Chesapeake and more.

The O'Day is not a trailer friendly sailboat.... You can trailer it, but man I don't think I'd want to do that everytime I go sailing... It would be rather a lot of work to get that boat into and out of Wallenpaupack for a quick day sail... Are one of you O'Day owners launching and retrieving your boat every time you go sailing? I mean if you are, I'll go back in my hole and be quiet. But that's not a boat for that kind of sailing unless I've missed something...

The Mac 26D is almost an ideal boat for where and how the OP has been talking about sailing...

dj

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Again, unless there is some very obvious softness in the deck, it's not an issue that can't be attended to

I had no idea my foredeck was mush until I went to rebed my deck pipe. It appeared to have full strength when stepping on the deck. Once again, this was due to a lack of sealant in a 2" hole

The O'Day is not a trailer friendly sailboat....

This man speaks the truth! I went out and bought a beater F250 to trailer it ...before I tried stepping the mast. If you have a semi rigid furler it adds to the complication. Let's just say the F250 has been sold and I picked up a motor boat to trailer around

 

[jssailem]

I reviewed a thread about buying a boat on Cruisers Forum. A link to a Surveyor's opinion provided a lot of insight into the buying experience.

Here is the Surveyor's thoughts about a buyer Pre-Survey.

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

There is a lot a potential buyer can do to say yea or nay about a boat. If yes, then you can hire your own surveyor if needed.

A few years ago I experienced a buyer's disappointment when the boat (a distance from the buyer) failed to match the broker/owner communications about the excellent the condition of the boat. On arrival the boat was not even close to the "advertised" condition. In my opinion, I would be uncomfortable to even leave the slip on the boat.

It is not easy being a new buyer. Just go into the process with a lot of patience, take lots of photographs and make no decisions til you get home and have time to review the images. It is too easy to see a boat you like and imagine the experience of being on it sails up and out on the water. The flaws that are evident to the camera often get swept aside by dreamy eyes. The article makes a great point. What you see on the surface is the symptom of something going on inside the deck or hull. You need to look for a cause, before you brush an issue aside as just a beauty mark.

 

[artleyt115]

We’ll guys against my better judgement, I saw the boat and let me start by the things I looked into. All the rigging points and those stress cracks I check out fist. All of them had a heavy amount of sealant and I fist I thought this could be a sign of the seller have a leak issue and chasing it. Luckily this whole week it’s been raining so I expected to see water in the cabin and in the spots where it would have leaked down to. And to my surprise it was dry! And I mean really dry, I checked the support beam under the mast for rot or signs of water damage and yet again dry as can be. Next I check for soggy deck (which to be honest I sorta looked like an ass jumping around and firm footing this boat but I couldn’t find a soft spot) so I came to the conclusion the bones are good and not to mention, the interior, beautiful. All the wood was new and dry, the seats look great and the appliances where good aswell. Sail were as described as well as two other sets to go with it. Two anchors as well (tbh I don’t know if this was standard) as well as a solar relay. The trailer, was for certain over engineered for this boat, not being an entirely good thing. It’s super heavy duty emphasis on heavy. It’s all c beam, super thick and well balanced. It’s has hook ups for a sway hitch (I’m drawing a blank on the actual term) but he also showed me him launching and putting it back on the trailer. And to be honest it barely seemed like his truck was barely touching the water. Not saying all lakes will be how he launched it but it did give me a little hope. So the real question am I buying this boat………
Mhmm
Well
Ummmmmmmm
Yeah ( .-.)
The boat is a thousand dollars and I don’t think I could go too wrong with it. Even if it goes wrong I’m sure I could get something close back after a good cleaning and some good photos.
Btw I don’t know if I mentioned but I do have a couple bigger trucks to tow it, (f250, searia 2500 and a Chevy 1500) as well as the rigging is new and stainless steal.
I will say all of the recommendations on where to check for leaks, water damage, rot and other odds and ends I really appreciate it! I wouldn’t have known to check them without you all! And I’ll be honest I know this boat will be a challenge, I’m always up for a challenge. I have a plethora of tools at my disposal, time, energy, and hopefully my wallet can keep up

 

[artleyt115]

Also I will more than likely make a updated form with photos on it progress so you all can know how it’s going. Oh also I found out why the 27 is on it. The boat was actually being raced on lake wallenpaupack, the main lake I will be sailing this boat! Thank you all again for the great advice and I will keep you guys updated!

 

[dLj]

Congrats on the new boat! Sail and enjoy! Just an aside, perhaps, but I live not overly far from wallenpaupack and have sailed on that lake numerous times. If you would like a fellow sailor to lend a hand one day, drop me a line.

dj

 

[artleyt115]

Congrats on the new boat! Sail and enjoy! Just an aside, perhaps, but I live not overly far from wallenpaupack and have sailed on that lake numerous times. If you would like a fellow sailor to lend a hand one day, drop me a line.

dj

I might take you up on the offer! More than likely next year though