Replacing jib cars with Harken track?

[Davidasailor26]

My Harken jib sheet cars have flat spots worn in the sheaves. I'd like to replace with something more robust, but it looks like I might be stuck with the same unless I replace the track. Does anyone know if any other brands are compatible with Harken Low-Beam 22mm track? Most of what I find requires T-Track of 1" or more.

 

[dlochner]

Have you looked a Lewmar?

 

[Davidasailor26]

Have you looked a Lewmar?

Good suggestion. I had looked before and saw they had T-track cars, but now I see an NTR series as well. My concern with switching to T track is that they generally have 4” hole spacing, compared to 3 15/16” for my current track. I’m not sure if my track is thru-bolted or threaded into an embedded plate - need to check on the boat for that. If it’s thru-bolted I could probably fill and re-drill. If it’s threaded into a plate I’d have a hard time switching to the slightly larger spacing.

It does look like the Lewmar NTR series has the same hole spacing as my Harken, and with a higher working strength. That is interesting. I’d need to decide if the cost of the track change is worthwhile for the extra strength, but at least it’s an option.

 

[jviss]

I have a few questions, if you don't mind. First, how did the sheaves get flat spots on them? Where the sheaves seized, i.e., not turning, for quite a while? What's the model of the Harken car? And finally, why not look to Harken to repair or replace them?

I wouldn't ordinarily say the last, but since I got my Tartan 3800, with virtually all Harken hardware I have experienced superb support from Harken! I was astonished. I found the most effective way to contact them is on FaceBook, BTW. They have provided excellent information and advice, and have even sent me things for free. Just great.

 

[Joe]

Harken's track is proprietary. So, you'll have to change the track if you change hardware brands. However, harken sells replacement ball bearings and sheaves for all their track products. Give them a call or use jviss' reference to solve your issue. Since the track is not damaged, I see no reason to pay $25 or more per foot to replace it when Harken has more than enough choices to replace your damaged hardware. It's good stuff.

One extra comment. If you plan to replace the jib cars... consider Garhaurer's EZ glide system... which use standard T-Track.(I think it's 1 1/4"). Yes, you will add new T track, but there's no reason to pull up the existing Harken track.. Just install the new alongside the old... perhaps enough to have an "inside jib track" or an "outside genoa track" depending on the current track' current location. I just wouldn't worry about embedded plates, they're either there or they're not. If not, you fit oversize washers under the deck, if so, drill and tap. But I digress... the Garhaurer system, which most of the folks here will recommend, is considerably less expensive than other systems. Even with the cost of additional track, the total will be well below and a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[Stu Jackson]

David, how old are they? What's the issue with replacing blocks that actually fit on your existing track?

Joe's right. Again.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Thanks all for the ideas. To answer some of the follow up questions - the leads are 8 seasons old and spin freely, so I don’t think the flat spots are from having seized at all. I suspect once the flat spots started to develop the line started sliding more than spinning, and things got continually worse from there.

I have no aversion to Harken. I think the root cause is that Beneteau seems to have undersized this part. I’m pretty sure this is a HARG226S - a 22mm Pinstop car. (I need to take a couple more measurements at the boat to confirm, but I’m pretty confident from the measurements I have). Harken markets their 22mm equipment as “small boat” for boats up to 27 feet. We have a relatively small jib, not an overlapping genoa, so there might be some wiggle room there, but the boat is 37% larger than that sizing recommendation. All of the beefier Harken leads require upsized track with the slightly different hole spacing, thus my hope for a strong replacement from another brand with track compatibility. The Lewmar option has a 60% higher working load with the same hole spacing, so that’s an interesting middle ground. If I decide to go all-out and replace the track (or add a second one as Joe said) Garhauer is an interesting option.

Glad to hear Harken is responsive. I’ll definitely check with them. The shop at my yard says they wouldn’t be able to re-rivet a sheave like that, but if Harken would sell just the upper part of the lead and not the car that would be a cost savings I’m sure.

 

[Davidasailor26]

This is how flat the port sheave has gotten by the way -

The starboard lead is flat too, but not worn all the way to the pin yet.

 

[DougM]

Personally, I would stay with the Harken hardware. As I replaced the original Lewmar hardware on my boat over time, I used Harken because of my experience with it when I raced scows. It seems to be the primary choice here in the north, headquartered in Wisconsin.

 

[jviss]

This is how flat the port sheave has gotten by the way -
View attachment 202750

The starboard lead is flat too, but not worn all the way to the pin yet.

Wow, that is weird, especially if the sheave is not seized. Perhaps with sufficient force perpendicular to the sheave axel axis there's sufficient friction to prevent it from rolling. That would be a sign of an undersized part. But then, it's a ball bearing sheave, so that shouldn't happen, unless some of the balls are missing or crushed. That could happen on an undersized block with Delrin balls. I would be hesitant to replace it with the same size part. But do see what Harken has to say. They helped me with sizing of blocks for my boat, and pointed differences in rating, i.e., strength, of blocks they make that otherwise looked nearly the same.

As I though about this it occurs to me that while all of the other sailing hardware on my boat is Harken, I think the jib leads and tracks are Schaefer. . They look like this:

This is a serious, twin sheet lead block for boats up to 38'. They are a lot of money, but note that the job sheet is the biggest load on the boat, so don't skimp on it.

 

[PaulK]

Is it a ball-bearing sheave? Doesn't look like it, even though the car is almost $400 retail. Simplest fix (also cheapest, and quickest) would be to replace the sheaves.
Harken offers other cars for the track: 22 mm Small Boat. They don't look as robust as the one you have, and all have the same max working load of 1250 pounds. Perhaps Harken could suggest a sheave of a different material. It looks like a bigger sheave, which would turn more easily, might also fit.

 

[jviss]

Is it a ball-bearing sheave?

Who are you asking? I looked it up, it is, indeed, a ball bearing sheave. But, as I mentioned, if it is undersized, the Delrin balls could have been crushed.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Is it a ball-bearing sheave? Doesn't look like it, even though the car is almost $400 retail. Simplest fix (also cheapest, and quickest) would be to replace the sheaves.
Harken offers other cars for the track: 22 mm Small Boat. They don't look as robust as the one you have, and all have the same max working load of 1250 pounds. Perhaps Harken could suggest a sheave of a different material. It looks like a bigger sheave, which would turn more easily, might also fit.

Based on how it looks where the sheave wore down to the pin I don’t think it’s a ball bearing sheave. It’s not $400 though - I went to the boat today and confirmed the measurements match this 22mm car - 22mm Slider Car — Pinstop. With an MSRP of $214 and it can be found for $170.

So I guess my options are:
- Direct replacement hoping for another 5-10 years
- Switch to the Lewmar track and car that has the same hole spacing and 57% higher working load (for $100 more)
- Upgrade the track and cars to something bigger from Harken or Garhauer, including filling the existing holes and re-drilling. Looks like the Garhauer option is about the same cost as the Lewmar option above but has 50% higher working load. Harken’s equivalent strength is 27mm track and would be $50 more.

I did check at the boat and the track is through bolted, with the nuts accessible past the headliner, so full replacement is possible if I decide to go that way. I also reached out to Harken on Facebook to see if they have any alternatives, so I’ll see what they say about that.

 

[PaulK]

Who are you asking? I looked it up, it is, indeed, a ball bearing sheave. But, as I mentioned, if it is undersized, the Delrin balls could have been crushed.

The bearings are in the sheaves that adjust the position of the car, not in the sheave that takes the jibsheet.

 

[PaulK]

Based on how it looks where the sheave wore down to the pin I don’t think it’s a ball bearing sheave. It’s not $400 though - I went to the boat today and confirmed the measurements match this 22mm car - 22mm Slider Car — Pinstop. With an MSRP of $214 and it can be found for $170.

So I guess my options are:
- Direct replacement hoping for another 5-10 years
- Switch to the Lewmar track and car that has the same hole spacing and 57% higher working load (for $100 more)
- Upgrade the track and cars to something bigger from Harken or Garhauer, including filling the existing holes and re-drilling. Looks like the Garhauer option is about the same cost as the Lewmar option above but has 50% higher working load. Harken’s equivalent strength is 27mm track and would be $50 more.

I did check at the boat and the track is through bolted, with the nuts accessible past the headliner, so full replacement is possible if I decide to go that way. I also reached out to Harken on Facebook to see if they have any alternatives, so I’ll see what they say about that.

The worn sheave is what needs replacing, not the entire unit. An aluminum sheave might hold up better if Harken has one that fits. Replacing the track will be a LOT of work, as well as added cost, and you may end up with leaks.

 

[Davidasailor26]

The worn sheave is what needs replacing, not the entire unit. An aluminum sheave might hold up better if Harken has one that fits. Replacing the track will be a LOT of work, as well as added cost, and you may end up with leaks.

No doubt replacing the track is the higher risk of boat project expansion. The nuts and washers are very accessible, so there’s no digging in tight spaces, but leaks would definitely be a concern. It would be nice to have a piece of hardware that doesn’t seem so undersized, but I don’t know if that’s worth the extra work and cost.

I’ll report back with what options Harken has. If they can provide a replacement sheave I would need to find a shop that can re-rivet it, since the shop in my yard can’t.

 

[Joe]

Adding additional track is no big deal, and if done correctly, leakproof. Even if you use the same holes for a replacement track, you still have to practice the correct sealing method... so honestly, don't let your decision rest on that possibility.

 

[jviss]

If they can provide a replacement sheave I would need to find a shop that can re-rivet it, since the shop in my yard can’t.

You could put it back together with a nut and bolt, through a tube that serves as the axel.

 

[Davidasailor26]

To give an update on the solution - After a little bit of time I was able to get in touch with Harken. They do sell the sheave and stainless housing as a spare part, separate from the car body. It’s about a third of the cost of the whole car, so that looks like the way to go for now.

 

[jviss]

To give an update on the solution - After a little bit of time I was able to get in touch with Harken. They do sell the sheave and stainless housing as a spare part, separate from the car body. It’s about a third of the cost of the whole car, so that looks like the way to go for now.

Excellent! May I ask how much? And, would they sell just the sheave and axel, in case you have riveting capability?