confused as to what to look for in a blue water boat

Aug 17, 2013
818
Pearson P30 202 Ottawa/Gatineau
hey everyone, I'm starting to plan for my retirement, still about 10 years to go, and I want a blue water boat to go around the world, or at least part of it, I now have a Grampian 26, it's a great boat but not at all a blue water boat, I know enough to know I don't know much about this type of boat.
What should I be looking at in terms of boats? I know I'll be looking at used boats around or under 100k.


equipment wise I pretty much know what I want, but what do I really need?
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Fred. I believe, that only you can answer this question. We all can share our ideas, and perhaps some of them will resonate. Yet they are ideas that come with a bias. A manufacturer we like, or a design advantage ie. speed or comfortable ride which meets our profile of a Blue Water boat.

To make a suggestion, I would explore the ideas of one of your countryman. John Harries, author of “Attainable Adventure Cruising”, Attainable Adventure Cruising
he helped me with a ’way of seeking‘ my boat. I became a subscriber to his insights. For me it became not the things on the boat but what I saw myself doing. How I might use the boat. This drove the type of boat I should look for and then the equipment compatible with this vision. John covers all of this in his articles about selecting a cruising boat.

As an example: A priority might be the ability to swim or dive from the boat. Such a priority requires the boat to have a way to easily get on and off of the boat and into the water. A boat like your Grampian would not be as favorable as a boat with a swim platform.

If you want to read about a lot of boats that are considered “Blue Water” boats then explore the web site. Bluewaterboats.org - Sailboat reviews for offshore sailing

May you enjoy this quest and find a good solution to that you seek.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,401
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Bluewater sailing has more to do with the sailor than the boat. Matt Rutherford completed a non stop circumnavigation of the Americas (including the NW passage) in an old beat up Albin Vega 27. Tania Aebi sailed around the world in a Contessa 26, a smaller sister to John Kretschmer's Contessa 31.

Heavy double enders, like the Babas, Hans Christians, Southern Crosses were once thought to be essential for ocean sailing, that's not necessarily the case any more. Steve Dashew pioneered the idea of long skinny fast sailboats to cross oceans, the antithesis of the slow heavy double enders.

While most will immediately talk about hull and sail plan when asked about bluewater boats, that is only one factor. More important factors involve livability at 20° of heel. Take a look at some of newer larger Beneteaus, go below and look for good safe hand holds, where does the cook stand and how safe is it in a bouncing sea? What about the head, too big and there is room to fall and get injured, too small and its cramped and uncomfortable.

Watch the YouTubers sailing around the world and you'll notice they spend far more time at anchor than they do actually sailing. The boat will become your home, it has to feel like home. When we were looking for a boat to cruise on, we considered a Tartan 37, there are many T37s sailing the world and crossing oceans a very capable boat. However, when we look at interiors, they didn't feel like home, too much dark teak. In contrast, when I first stepped aboard a Sabre 362 at a boat show, I felt at home, this was the boat I want and never thought I would own. The 362 is perfectly capable of crossing oceans, several have.

Another consideration is the intended cruising grounds, boats headed for high latitudes have very different requirements than those headed to the tropics.

@jssailem mentioned John Harris website. There is a wealth of information there from John and his readers who are experienced long distance cruisers. Over the past few years he has been involved in the design of an affordable 40' world cruising boat. Those articles are well worth the read. It's a pay site, with a very affordable ~$20 a year subscription, worth every penny.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,069
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
...Watch the YouTubers sailing around the world and you'll notice they spend far more time at anchor than they do actually sailing...
I believe this is true. And should as much a consideration as seakeeping. The two are sort of opposing so it's a delicate balance. If the boat can be handled by two people off shore, then it will likely be cramped for live aboard. A Maramu is a good compromise but it is larger and you won't find a well found one for under 100K.
You might find a Gulfstar for that price. I guess not really "Blue water" but would do the live aboard part well.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,369
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I have read a version of this post may times...and I have always enjoyed the analysis. The conclusion I have drawn is that the answer is a matter of personal choice. It would take a long time (maybe a book lenght post) to disect all of the nuances but lets start at the two extremes...

1) Full keel, heavy, stout, double ender with a beefy, stuby rig and a small cockpit. This boat is designed to ride out a gale in relative comfort.... (relative is a personal definition) the rig is strong enough to handle a knock down, maybe even a full roll-over...and it is so slow that you are certain to eventually ride out a gale if you do any serious cruising. So the boat needs to be heavy and stout.

2) A 35 ft trimaran with a high aspect rig. This boat is fast, can outrun most bad weather and if you are the type of sailor who stays in port until a good weather window opens, pays close attention to the weather, learns to read weather reports properly....then you miss most of the gales... but you should still have the gear and a plan in case you get caught out in a gale. While in port, you have a big roomy deck to chill on.

There are about a 1000 shades of blue between those two extremes.
 

DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,703
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Fred, that is really a wide open question. So many different opinions, BUT there was an attempt by Cruising World magazine many years ago to define the best cruiser. Hopefully this link will take you to the right page. This is now over 20 years out of date and there have been many great boats made since this article was produced but it should give you an idea of what to look for using the criteria in the article. At the time there were 5 boats that came out on top, my favourite is the Corbin which would fit in your price range for one in good condition. It's all about compromise, comfort or speed, systems or ease of maintenance, space or low cost...
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
To be blunt, the single most important consideration in selecting a "blue water boat" (whatever that is) is the ability of the captain and crew to sail it. At the risk of offending, frankly, anyone asking that question isn't...
Good point in general. The ocean isn't a good place for OJT
 
Jan 25, 2007
290
Cal Cal 33-2 cape cod
Good advice folks on resources for world sailing. Sailing Uma (you tubers) did it on a Pearson 36. Sailing around world... this comes up a lot in my conversations with sailors and non-sailors alike. Chartering a sailboat works well too, at least for the less bold. 100k would go along way... and nothing goes to windward like a 747... then come home with lessons learned, photos taken, and enjoy your coastal cruiser. September my wife & I chartered from Poros & sailed the Saronic sea in Greece, stopping in some amazing places, taking in ancient sites, quiet anchorages, free docking, and spectacular ocean views/sunrises. Good luck where ever your journey takes you.
 

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Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Many try.
Darwinian law prevails.
The good and the lucky return to port.
No clue what the ability of the OP may be so I often misjudge. Questions about “blue water boats” always remind me of my days serving in the CG years ago when they still did towing as well as SAR. Our ‘customers’ all too often bought the biggest boat they could afford and it never ended well.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,088
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Yes Don. I get it and agree.

As is so often the case (as you stated), "It is not the boat but the captain and crew that determines the safe return to shore."

I am reminded of the 1979 Fastnet Race when sailors ask, what boat should I get to be safe on the ocean. The after event reports made it very clear. Boats without captain or crew survived the storm, when the boat was abandoned.

When I say Fasnet Race, many sailors ask "What"? Attached is a description of the Weather encountered by the racers from Yachting World.

I have made it a motto. If ever I am forced to abandon my boat, I will be stepping up onto another craft.
 

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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
hey everyone, I'm starting to plan for my retirement, still about 10 years to go, and I want a blue water boat to go around the world, or at least part of it, I now have a Grampian 26, it's a great boat but not at all a blue water boat, I know enough to know I don't know much about this type of boat.
What should I be looking at in terms of boats? I know I'll be looking at used boats around or under 100k.


equipment wise I pretty much know what I want, but what do I really need?
Sounds like you have a realistic budget and by your boat experience so far, some good sailing experience. I've found, the more sailing/sailboat owning experience people have, the less likely they'll say, "I plan to sail around the world". You have added, "or at least part of it" That shows wisdom.

Why not look at good quality racer/cruisers that are mostly used for coastal sailing? Most are good 'blue water boats' that lack the equipment for safe off shore sailing.

No matter how far you go, you'll spend most of your time coastal sailing.
 
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Oct 10, 2019
114
Signet 20 0 Ithaca
Whatever boat you find, assume about 35% of that 100 large for the boat itself and the other 65% for offput maintenance, hidden problems, and upgrades to all kinds of systems. That and a couple years sweat equity, you should come out the other side with a fine ship and a bunch of really good stories...
 
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DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,703
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Whatever boat you find, assume about 35% of that 100 large for the boat itself and the other 65% for offput maintenance, hidden problems, and upgrades to all kinds of systems. That and a couple years sweat equity, you should come out the other side with a fine ship and a bunch of really good stories...
Good point, although that may be a bit of exaggeration... for most boats. My boat was under-maintained in some areas but I would guess 20% of the purchase price in mostly DIY work is enough to bring it up to ready to cast off condition. @fred1diver judging from your past posts you seem to be a hands on/DIY kind of guy so you should be able to keep the upgrade costs down but there are still some big expenses like sails and electronics that you just need to throw some money at.
To be blunt, the single most important consideration in selecting a "blue water boat" (whatever that is) is the ability of the captain and crew to sail it. At the risk of offending, frankly, anyone asking that question isn't...
That is blunt, and that last part may not be very accurate. Anyway, I enjoy these discussions about the merits of various boats. The first point is valid about the captain and crew being the most important part of the equation. Years ago I read an article about Dave and Jaja Martin sailing around the world on a Cal 27. Not a boat generally recognized as blue water capable. The quote that stuck with me was the only major equipment failure they had was birth control.