Anchoring...yes, I'm asking an anchoring question.

thinwater · May 15, 2020

1. In fact, it is best not to lower the anchor until the boat is moving very slowly astern, less than 1 knot. The goal is to place the anchor on the bottom and then slowly tip it over in the correct direction. You do NOT want to pile chain on top of the anchor; the chain can tangle around the anchor.
2. Don't even fool with stern ties until you are experienced with a single anchor. A single anchor is the best answer 98% of the time. Also, successful stern ties require practiced anchor setting technique. It will come.
3. You have a good anchor of a good size. Let out 5-7:1 scope depending on water depth, weather, and bottom type, set with the motor, and sleep well. Give yourself lots of room to start. Finally, everyone gets up at night until they practice and build confidence. But full details would take a book.
4. A book. Alternatively, you can search anchor threads and google anchoring, but that will presented as tangled bits and pieces.

"Rigging Modern Anchors"

justsomeguy · May 15, 2020

Kevy said:
1. When dropping the anchor when is the time to start backing up? I think I've been on the move too soon. I've hear people say drop a bunch and your calculated outlay and then give'er, but I'm wondering is there's a 'best' approach to this?

Pretty much right away when you find bottom, and then keep paying out rode slowly.

Kevy said:
2. Not sure who invented stern tying, but WTF? How do you keep your boat on the pull on the anchor and keep it facing vaguely the way you want for the stern tie? Calculating the right amount of line to have out (i.e. 3,4,5:1 scope) while calculating how far back that will pull me towards the shore seems to require all that grade 10 math I've certainly forgotten.

It's not really 10th grade math. Primary/elementary really. Thinwater's right.

Kevy said:
3. Will my anchor actually hold me? I'm tired of getting up 4 times a night to stare at a black sky and see if I've moved (not that I'd really know).

Good anchor. What bottom type? Thinwater's right.

Kevy said:
4. I don't know what I don't know. Can anyone tell me what I don't know?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Again, Thinwater's right.

MikeHoncho · May 15, 2020

Get a good anchor alarm app and lay in bed and check on position at night. i think it’s interesting seeing the mapped our movement throughout the night

Kings Gambit · May 15, 2020

Kevy. Lucky guy having your yacht in Ladysmith! Admiral and I visited there in 2018 arriving by air; stayed one night at the Kiwi Lodge near the airport. Great little dockside cafe there at Ladysmith, and little waterfront “village.“

Regarding your anchoring question. If there is any wind bring the boat into it and coast to a near stop, then drop the hook (gravity) until It hits bottom, then veer rode/chain as the boat falls off making its leeway. When you get out 80 to 100 ft, stop off and let the boat come up on its own. The hook will start setting itself. Idle in reverse for maybe a minute or two after the boat stops. If holding, the rode will start to straighten out and lift up some. Next, power back a few seconds until the rode stretches out. If water is rushing by from the stern; you’re in. IMHO, it’s more normal to get up and check the anchoring situation than to sleep through all night.

Stern tying is a learned art, usually requiring a different procedure. Have a spool of polypropylene line on the stern rail. Drop your hook maybe 200-250 ft out and start slowly backing down, veering your chain. Be cautious. You’ll be moving stern first into shoaling water, but your depth meter is at the bow! Don’t want to strike the rudder; watch closely. Send your crew to shore to loop through the ring and return. When you get the stern tie back aboard, focus on setting the hook. Once that is done, trim the stern tie. Be sure to use floating (polypropylene) line, as I said. Good luck. Try it out in Princess Bay @ Wallace Island. Do it at neap tides.

dlochner · May 16, 2020

So far all good and relevant advice.

An anchor watch app or the chart plotter can be used to monitor the boat's position. The often recommended practice of taking bearings works, except the boat will move with changes in wind and tide, but the anchor will not necessarily move. An anchor watch app or the MFD will show the boats track, usually some sort of arc around the anchor.

When the anchor is not set well and it drags, it will often skip on the bottom. The skipping can be felt in the boat. The boat will normally move forward and back due to wind and waves, when it drags it will skip and jump and catch. It does not do this when the anchor is well set.

RoyS · May 16, 2020

Agree with Kings Gambit. You can avoid all kinds of difficulty anchoring by using the wind and not the engine to lay out your rode. Watch the couples hollering back and forth as the husband lowers the anchor while yelling into the wind for the wife to reverse. Of course the wife at the helm hears nothing over the engine noise and continues forward. Eventually on the third try the wife knows that when the muffled screams start go to reverse. This also fails as propeller walk kicks in and the boat starts a great circle to port under power. Better to start by handing the wife a cold one anywhere but at the helm. Go forward directly into the wind under power at a crawl to your selected anchor drop spot coming to a near complete stop. Leave engine in neutral. Walk forward, lower your anchor when the wind starts moving you backwards. keep playing out rode as the wind takes you straight back. If the boat veers, hold up on the rode and it will line up again with the wind. When you have enough scope out tie off and clip on your kellet. With a properly sized Rocna you should be able to sleep soundly as it will bury itself and not plow unless on pure ledge. Anchoring in this manner is a one man job and without stress.

DArcy · May 16, 2020

I agree with KG, you don't need to power back if there is any wind. I come to a stop, lower the anchor to the bottom. You have, of course, determined the depth already so you know how much approximately to let out to get to the bottom. Once the anchor is on the bottom, wait until the boat starts to drift back then pay out more chain as the boat falls back. Be patient. I like to stop paying out periodically to straighten out the anchor and also keep the bow pointed into the wind, just enough to straighten out but not really check momentum. Once you have a 5:1 scope out, a bit more if big weather or questionable bottom are expected, make fast then throw the engine in reverse. Just idle at first, to let the anchor settle in and take out the catenary, then take a transit on shore and throttle up watching your transit to see if you are moving astern. Patience is key, don't rush it.
Shut down the engine and grab a beer :beer:

. You are set for a good night sleep.

Edit: it looks like @RoyS and I wrote the same thing at the same time

jssailem · May 16, 2020

Sorry Kevy about the math challenge of your youth. It is never too late to brush up on Trig. Then there is the “New Math” and the finger calculator methods.

or

You can try to mark your chain/rode. A number of different techniques are available. Paint, zip ties, or colored wire/line are a few. How deep do you like too find a bay to anchor 15 ft - 20 ft? What is the approximate height of your bow roller off the water - 5 ft?

Putting this together. Let’s look for 15ft of depth in the little cove that looks safe in the Gulf islands. When you marked the chain with your red zip ties your first Mark is at 5 ft. Letting the chain fall it goes by and the anchor enters the water. Your decision to make the next chain/rode mark 15 ft from the first mark tells you the anchor is on/at/near the bottom. A bit more chain and a start to drift slow back will help lay out the chain and start the anchor to set into the mud bottom. Playing out the anchor chain your second marker appears. This one is at 20 ft from mark #2. Good choice you know you have let fall two 20 foot lengths. Your at 2:1 scope. One more marker and your at the 3:1 scope. Ok scope for a calm quiet evening. But suddenly you remember that weather forecast saying winds will be picking up. You decide to let 2 more markers go by and you have the recommended 5:1 scope. You tie off the chain. You take control of the helm and give the engine some reverse juice setting the anchor.

Now you may ask, but John that only works in 15 ft of bay. What if it’s 12 feet or 20 feet and I only want 3.5:1 scope. Does it really matter if you are in 17 ft of water and your at the 5th mark on your chain. Let out a little more chain/rode. So your at 5.3:1. No one will get upset. Your math is close enough for government work. Sleep well.

And get your self an anchor alarm for your phone. There are plenty of free ones available.

Terry Cox · May 16, 2020

Just to clarify, Princess Bay is in Portland Island. Princess Cove is in Wallace Island. Here is what I do to anchor our boat: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

And as a reminder, be sure to use a snubber if only chain is out. If chain and some amount of three strand rope is out, fine, just cleat it off. I never leave any chain/rope secured to the windlass. Anchor checks during the night are normal here, especially in sour weather Periodic landmark checks tells me if the boat has moved. A good spotlight works during the night check. Backing down hard, if no wind, until the anchor sets and stops the boat gives me some comfort that the boat will stay put regardless of what comes.

FastOlson · May 16, 2020

Regarding "division of duties" while setting or retrieving the anchor. Whoever has strength and reach does the foredeck stuff. So 92% of the time the wife drives. Yelling is the last resort for communicating, but sometimes nothing else will do.

We use old fashioned "crane operator hand signals" where I hold up a hand where she can see it easily. Speed is usually always idle... Just put engine in and out of gear.
Pointing 'up" and circling the hand = forward. Clenched fist = stop. Point hand/palm down = reverse. And pointing port or starboard, steer appropriately. Increasing the hand movement quickly means = do this with a bit more vigor.

BTW, we went for several seasons pondering what to do about "sailing back n forth" at anchor. Then wised up and added a small Anchor Sail from end of boom to backstay. Works like the fletching on an arrow and the boat stays 'weathercocked' into the wind.

And speaking of checking position for dragging.... if you have a strong afternoon wind and there is a little chop lapping against the bow. Note that IF the sound of the wavelets hitting you lessens or stops rather quickly, your boat is dragging. i.e. moving astern. Sound of the wind in the rigging will lessen, too.

Pretty much all mud and sand where we anchor, so we have used a Danforth (r) for 25 years and it holds tenaciously. Rocky areas "up North" would certainly call for a different shape of anchor.

Hope you are enjoying those quiet evenings on the hook, with drinks and BBQ in the cockpit this season.... if and when enough villages and parks are reopened.

Kings Gambit · May 16, 2020

Terry Cox said:
Just to clarify, Princess Bay is in Portland Island. Princess Cove is in Wallace Island. Here is what I do to anchor our boat: Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

And as a reminder, be sure to use a snubber if only chain is out. If chain and some amount of three strand rope is out, fine, just cleat it off. I never leave any chain/rope secured to the windlass. Anchor checks during the night are normal here, especially in sour weather Periodic landmark checks tells me if the boat has moved. A good spotlight works during the night check. Backing down hard, if no wind, until the anchor sets and stops the boat gives me some comfort that the boat will stay put regardless of what comes.

Thanks Terry. But I’m reading off a [supposed] chart facsimile of Wallace Island that is pictured in Douglass & Hemingway-Douglass, 1996, p.41, South Coast of British Columbia. I agree, it should be “cove“ b/c that is what it is. A little cul-de-sac. Pretty place.

Reading further: The text description gives the location as “Princess Bay“ enclosed in quotation marks. The authors write in reference to the many small unnamed coves and bays which they are documentIng for the first time with the publication of the book: Local names and new names are shown in quotation marks.

Sailfanatic · May 16, 2020

RoyS said:
Agree with Kings Gambit. You can avoid all kinds of difficulty anchoring by using the wind and not the engine to lay out your rode. Watch the couples hollering back and forth as the husband lowers the anchor while yelling into the wind for the wife to reverse. Of course the wife at the helm hears nothing over the engine noise and continues forward. Eventually on the third try the wife knows that when the muffled screams start go to reverse. ...

This is certainly a common and unpleasant scenario, here is some advice how to avoid

Sailfanatic · May 16, 2020

Kevy said:
....

Anchoring:

I'll put a few questions out there. We've read tons, practiced some (more to come, obviously) but would appreciate some thoughts. We have a Rocna 15kg with 120' of chain and 180' of rode.

1. When dropping the anchor when is the time to start backing up? I think I've been on the move too soon. I've hear people say drop a bunch and your calculated outlay and then give'er, but I'm wondering is there's a 'best' approach to this?

.....

Well, that's about it. Yep, general, basic questions, but just trying to learn as much as we can to go and put it into practice.

Cheers all.

Kevy

Kevy
On question 1 my opinion is to stop the boat at your desired drop stop, lower the anchor to the bottom, then have the helm go into revers. Deploy the anchor rode as the boat backs, until fully deployed, then snub and set by backing hard.

This video helps

Terry Cox · May 16, 2020

Since I solo most all the time the only one I can yell at is, well me. Sometime I listen and other times...
As far as hand gestures go, no effect whatsoever.

thinwater · May 16, 2020

RoyS said:
Agree with Kings Gambit. You can avoid all kinds of difficulty anchoring by using the wind and not the engine to lay out your rode. Watch the couples hollering back and forth as the husband lowers the anchor while yelling into the wind for the wife to reverse. Of course the wife at the helm hears nothing over the engine noise and continues forward. Eventually on the third try the wife knows that when the muffled screams start go to reverse. This also fails as propeller walk kicks in and the boat starts a great circle to port under power. Better to start by handing the wife a cold one anywhere but at the helm. Go forward directly into the wind under power at a crawl to your selected anchor drop spot coming to a near complete stop. Leave engine in neutral. Walk forward, lower your anchor when the wind starts moving you backwards. keep playing out rode as the wind takes you straight back. If the boat veers, hold up on the rode and it will line up again with the wind. When you have enough scope out tie off and clip on your kellet. With a properly sized Rocna you should be able to sleep soundly as it will bury itself and not plow unless on pure ledge. Anchoring in this manner is a one man job and without stress.

^^ This. In moderate conditions anchoring should be a relaxing single-handed job. Make sure everything is ready before you start, and the wind will do most of the work. It's just a matter of timing.

thinwater · May 16, 2020

Terry Cox said:
Since I solo most all the time the only one I can yell at is, well me. Sometime I listen and other times...
As far as hand gestures go, no effect whatsoever.

Kings Gambit · May 16, 2020

So, there are different scenarios depending on whether or not the boat is equipped with a windlass. The video shows one procedure for a boat w/o a windlass. If you have a windlass and are using chain you’re not going to do it that way. After some experience, you’ll come to do it as I and RoyS described. Position the anchor slightly out of its cradle ready to drop. Coast the boat to a near stop, open the clutch on the windlass, and let the anchor drop to the bottom. As the boat falls off use the clutch to veer out the chain so you can contol how fast it deploys. In “strong” wind (15 To 20 kt), the boat can get moving seemingly fast. After, as I said, 80 to 100 ft, which Is usually a good scope to start with, stop off briefly by tightening the windlass clutch and then attach the snubber. The boat will come quickly if the anchor is setting.

Next, ease the clutch and veer additional chain, controlling with the snubber line, another say 15-20 ft, then stop off the snubber line to a bow cleat. The power-back routine is to deepen the set, and to test it. I hold on to the chain (it’s not moving out of course) as helm powers back. If the anchor is skipping or dragging, you can feel vibration in the chain, etc. By the time helm powers back, the snubber has been attached with some slack in the chain between the chain hook attachment and the windlass. When the anchor Is set, the snubber stopped off at the bow cleat stretches out quite a bit, holding the chain. Water from astern starts rushing past the bow. You’re in, as I said.

jon hansen · May 16, 2020

hey, in sailfanatic's video, in the background, there is a macgregor 65', very cool!

Anchoring...yes, I'm asking an anchoring question.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.