Waterproof solder wire connectors

dlochner · Aug 8, 2018

Solder makes a good electrical connection, but a poor mechanical connection. I'd be leery of them. A little practice with a good crimper and good quality heat shrink connectors will yield a solid mechanical and electrical connection.

I wonder what Maine Sail will say about these.

justsomeguy · Aug 8, 2018

Franklin said:
Anybody try these on a salt water boat?

I've used something similar made by RayChem I'd found at my local Ace. They incorporate strain relief too. Your find seems good.

dlochner · Aug 8, 2018

Franklin said:
My issue with regular connectors is if I have to connect a 12 gauge to a 18 gauge. Always hard to get the 18 gauge to secure tightly. With this connector, you join the wires together first, then solder around them. The video showed a man yanking hard on both ends and it didn't come apart. Sorry I can't find that video but this shows how to use them and it looks pretty secure.

Look for Step Down Butt Connectors like these: https://www.waytekwire.com/item/38059/Molex-19164-0077-Step-Down-Butt-Connector-/ They come in different combinations.

Another option I've used is quick disconnects. The male and female connectors are ¼" however each end can be a different gauge. Squeeze a little silicone dielectric grease on the female side to seal it and make it easier to separate it later. This method works well when you may have to disconnect or replace the device later.

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Aug 8, 2018

dlochner said:
Solder makes a good electrical connection, but a poor mechanical connection. I'd be leery of them. A little practice with a good crimper and good quality heat shrink connectors will yield a solid mechanical and electrical connection.

I wonder what Maine Sail will say about these.

as an aviation electronics tech in the navy, I sure soldered a BUNCH of connections in aircraft. I do use crimp connections aboard, but have no qualms about soldering, done correctly

heritage · Aug 8, 2018

Ive been using them for a couple of years. Very convenient for connecting different gauge wires. I suppose if you had a fire on board and a strain on one wire, they could pull apart,, but then you have bigger problems. I seem to remember that there is some code that requires some type of crimped connection even if it is soldered??

Don S/V ILLusion · Aug 8, 2018

heritage said:
Ive been using them for a couple of years. Very convenient for connecting different gauge wires. I suppose if you had a fire on board and a strain on one wire, they could pull apart,, but then you have bigger problems. I seem to remember that there is some code that requires some type of crimped connection even if it is soldered??

It's a set of boat construction recommendations by ABYC to which you probably refer. The problem with soldered connectors is two-fold:
1. People don't generally know how to do it properly, and
2. People often rely on soldering for mechanical fastening.

As long as it's done right and fastened so as to not create stress where the solder joint ends, soldering is the only means of ensuring no water enters the joint. And when crimped, there is no way short of destruction to inspect the joint's integrity.

gdudik · Aug 8, 2018

Having done a bunch of auto and RV electrical work, I say to HELL with soldering. I’m done with that unless we’re talking about a circuit board. As far as I’m concerned soldered connections have no business on a vehicle of any kind.

Get yourself one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Astro-9477-Professional-Interchangeable-Tool/dp/B0045CUMLQ?th=1&psc=1

Has interchangeable dies for different styles of crimping. Is even capable of crimping open barrel pins for weatherpack connectors, as well as all kinds of insulated and non insulated crimp connectors. Use with heat shrink butt connectors and as long as you get a full stroke on the crimper you’ll never have an issue.

True story: about 4 years ago I was working on a mid-2000’s Jeep Grand Cherokee. Trying to diagnose a car that was completely dead. Had a fully charged battery, but no dash lights, no crank, no start. Come to find out the entire security system including locks, alarm, immobilizer, etc is all contained within the driver’s door, since it’s all an extension of the power lock system. There is a 10ga ground wire going through the accordion boot between the door and the body of the car. Chrysler, in their infinite wisdom, spliced the ground wire, with solder and heat shrink, right in the middle of the accordion boot. So every time you opened and shut the driver’s door, the splice would work back and forth and eventually it failed. Poof! Dead car!

Every wiring harness on a vehicle (and I mean vehicle in the broadest sense—planes, trains, boats, autos) has the potential to be exposed to vibration. Vibration makes soldered connections fail.

So count me firmly in team crimp.

</rant>

justsomeguy · Aug 8, 2018

Huge!

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Aug 8, 2018

gdudik said:
Having done a bunch of auto and RV electrical work, I say to HELL with soldering. I’m done with that unless we’re talking about a circuit board. As far as I’m concerned soldered connections have no business on a vehicle of any kind.

Get yourself one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Astro-9477-Professional-Interchangeable-Tool/dp/B0045CUMLQ?th=1&psc=1

Has interchangeable dies for different styles of crimping. Is even capable of crimping open barrel pins for weatherpack connectors, as well as all kinds of insulated and non insulated crimp connectors. Use with heat shrink butt connectors and as long as you get a full stroke on the crimper you’ll never have an issue.

True story: about 4 years ago I was working on a mid-2000’s Jeep Grand Cherokee. Trying to diagnose a car that was completely dead. Had a fully charged battery, but no dash lights, no crank, no start. Come to find out the entire security system including locks, alarm, immobilizer, etc is all contained within the driver’s door, since it’s all an extension of the power lock system. There is a 10ga ground wire going through the accordion boot between the door and the body of the car. Chrysler, in their infinite wisdom, spliced the ground wire, with solder and heat shrink, right in the middle of the accordion boot. So every time you opened and shut the driver’s door, the splice would work back and forth and eventually it failed. Poof! Dead car!

Every wiring harness on a vehicle (and I mean vehicle in the broadest sense—planes, trains, boats, autos) has the potential to be exposed to vibration. Vibration makes soldered connections fail.

So count me firmly in team crimp.

</rant>

HAVE to disagree- onboard military aircraft, including fighters, etc, are MANY soldered connections. and they work well- as LONG AS DONE right!!, and covered after. I'll keep soldering then covering with a sleeve.

gdudik · Aug 8, 2018

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani said:
HAVE to disagree- onboard military aircraft, including fighters, etc, are MANY soldered connections. and they work well- as LONG AS DONE right!!, and covered after. I'll keep soldering then covering with a sleeve.

I will fully grant that the quality of wiring onboard a military aircraft is in a wholly different class than your average RV. At least I HOPE so.

justsomeguy · Aug 8, 2018

gdudik said:
At least I HOPE so.

For the sake of our oil-guzzling existence, yah.

JamesG161 · Aug 9, 2018

Franklin said:
Thoughts?

I have used them.

They are great!! Best water seal, by heat shrink, I have seen.

I have 3 types of crimp, heat shrink, seal that work good too.

The key to meeting ABYC standards is you can't rely on the solder to mechanically hold the wire stress.
_______
I have always preferred solder for all electrical connection.
So I bought them. It took about 6 months to get them in 2015.

Plus I had to buy a heat gun, which is really needed for a good shrink/seal of any type.

Story...
My son-in-law the electrician [who is Electrical repair on 20 Gulf Oil Platforms] has always used crimps. He was installing a new Tank Level transmitter on my boat. He pops out of his service tool bag, his box of heat shrink crimp type reds.

I showed him my new ones that solder.

I said, lets try these solder one. Well ok

to humor me.
Procedure...
1) Clean both wires
2) Slide on the new solder type butt connector.
3) Mechanically twist the pair. 3 wraps like all landlubber soldering.
4) Position the solder joint over the twists
5) Apply heat gun at solder joint per instructions. About 3"inches away on high setting, moving left/right.
6) Watch the solder melt and wrap seal [100%] at same time.
7) Done. Plus my son-in-laws facial expression was priceless.

So he proceeds to tug on the connection, his normal crimp test. Nothing happened.

He was definitely impressed.
That instrument wire has no mechanical stress on it.

I plan to use the solder type, when needed.
_____
BTW there was a big discussion on this in a previous SBO thread. I showed the ABYC standard that allows solder, if no mechanical stress reliance.
Jim...

PS: This is the ones I ordered
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KU0V586/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
50 piece not 100

PSS: After watching the video above, I would never use my greasy fingers to press the wires together.

Maine Sail · Aug 9, 2018

JamesG161 said:
BTW there was a big discussion on this in a previous SBO thread. I showed the ABYC standard that allows solder, if no mechanical stress reliance.
Jim...

Solder is allowed under the ABYC standards but it requires a "mechanical connection" or crimping first. No amount of wire twisting, heat shrink etc. meets the standard as a mechanical connection and this was clarified a number of years ago in a request for interpretation.

These terminals do not meet the minimum safety standards.

JamesG161 · Aug 9, 2018

Maine Sail said:
These terminals do not meet the minimum safety standards.

These new connections need to be reviewed by ABYC, in my opinion.
The Red band adhesive water seals are the key to me.
The mechanical stress test too. The ABYC standards show a tension pull table.
My connection even passed that test.
Jim...

PS: Never argue with MaineSail or

just kidding.

JamesG161 · Aug 9, 2018

As I think a bit more on the mechanical stress thing.
The Red Band Adhesive seal may be the mechanical stress and Water seal at same time.

I have never trusted the heat shrink to stop water or moisture from getting to a crimp, which is mechanical, to properly prevent corrosion.

You might try a few new ones in your shop, @Maine Sail , you might be pleasantly surprised.
Jim...

MitchM · Aug 9, 2018

thanks for a great story. and we wonder why the bills at an auto repair place can be $1000 ! on our chevy 3500 roadtreks for YEARS the designer has routed the hot wire to the required driverside rear backup/ running / licenplate lights thru the b pillar in such fashion that the wires got crushed and rhe amps were not enough to light the lights.... 2 vehicles, same problem , same stupid design. you’d think after i complained about it on the 1 st chevy, they’d have fixed it by the time i bought the 2 nd one : no!

Maine Sail · Aug 9, 2018

JamesG161 said:
You might try a few new ones in your shop, @Maine Sail , you might be pleasantly surprised.
Jim...

I have tested them. I will never use them for anything on a boat. Extremely low temp solder, no way to physically inspect the integrity of the solder joint, do not meet ABYC standards etc.. There are plenty of adhesive lined (glue) heat shrink terminals, from reputable manufacturers, that can far exceed the ABYC pull test with the correct crimp tools (a pathetically low bar, UL and Mil spec are far better for judging crimp integrity).