Engine mounting bolts - use stainless, or no?

Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
It is the only Stress Corrosion resistant Stainless Steel for Salt water use.
Jim...
Please forgive my ignorance. I have not worked with this material before. Can you please point me to a specification for corrosion resistance ratings in salt water? The only ratings that I was able to find were for acids & caustics.

Thanks,
(the other) Jim
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
8,019
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
maybe up to 4
Yes.
But we are not talking tensional stress, but shear stress. Also repaid change from forward to reverse thrusting. Mine are sized right, but not insignificant stresses over time repletion plus corrosion.
Jim...
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy_20

They call it A "Nickel alloy" but most Engineers I knew of had it in the Stainless group.
Jim...
I didn't see any salt ratings there. I did see a chloride ion reference.

I agree that the classification on that page as a nickel alloy & not a stainless alloy, may not be the best possible description. I think that stainless classification is normally granted on the basis of chromium content, which this material has plenty of. I think that it is possible that this alloy is both a stainless alloy & a nickel alloy at the same time, in the same way that a copper/tin/zinc alloy is both a brass & a bronze.
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
8,019
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Is that what they used?
On mine, 316SS which is really ok, because even though they can be "Oxygen starved", their exposure to high salinity is small.
Jim...
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
8,019
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
I didn't see any salt ratings there
The official name for it is

Chloride Stress Corrosion Cracking.

It is not the Na but the Cl that causes it in Oxygen starved applications. I seem to recall they pass test it on resistant to high temperature Salt Water exposure on Nuclear Naval Reactors.
____
Try this link for Alloy 20 parts.
https://www.corrosionmaterials.com/alloys/alloy-20/
______
Yes I have used it industrially. Not a my boat.
Jim...
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,092
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Okay, WOW. Yes, the strength difference is night and day. The fasteners I need are metric M10 x 1.5, 50mm long. In stainless steel, they show a tensile strength of 70,000 psi. In alloy steel, they have 170,000. :yikes:

So, anti-sieze, huh? And here I was thinking threadlock, the exact opposite concept! I guess the idea is to just rely on the lock washers to do their job?
Be careful with strength numbers the yield strength is where the material starts to fail so use that. Ultimate strength is dependent on factors like ductility and in some cases the material might be half the original diameter when it finally breaks in two. Other materials will snap just barely above the yield strength you might think of these as brittle. On my engines I used jam nuts and lock nuts for secure retention. With a bolt in a tapped hole I suggest using safety wire. Get bolts with holes drilled in the corners of the flats and then safety wire them after installation. You can get safety wire instructions on YouTube no doubt.
 
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Oct 10, 2011
619
Tartan 34C Toms River, New Jersey
There's more Metallurgy information here then there was in my first college class:wow3:
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
8,019
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
in my first college class
Mine too!:D
I just happened to work industrially in a chemical plant that had HIGH chlorides. The real experts always went to Alloy 20, Inconel and Titanium for negligible Stress Crack Corrosion.

Trivia: The most abundant metal on earth surface is Aluminum and 3rd is Titanium.
Jim...

PS: Corrected Ti amount
 
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Sep 20, 2014
1,330
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
Yes.
But we are not talking tensional stress, but shear stress. Also repaid change from forward to reverse thrusting. Mine are sized right, but not insignificant stresses over time repletion plus corrosion.
Jim...
You would only see shear stress if the bolt were to loosen up. If the bolt is tight, the clamping force prevents shear action. Switching from forward to reverse results in no additional external stress to the mounts. All of the inertia is absorbed by the rotating mass, which is unrelated to the stationary mass. The only force against the stationary mass is the force created by the expansion of the exhaust air against the piston when it fires. The air in the cylinder is the only coupling between the rotating mass and the stationary mass. (Ok, there is a very tiny amount that is transmitted through the timing chain to the valve train, but that is very small. )
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
At this point, we have bantered about quite a bit regarding properties of various materials. Now might be a good time to get back to the original basic question of which 10mm bolts the original poster might want to use for his engine mounts.

From where I’m sitting, Alloy 20 or Titanium might be a nice choice if your budget allows & if you can find them. It looks to me like if you want to get them, you need to ask a manufacturer for a quote, so I’m going to take those choices off the table on the basis of poor availability.

That would leave me choosing between the classic materials that can be found on the shelf, like 316 (aka A-4), 304 (aka 18-8 or A-2), bronze, brass, 8.8 or 10.9 or 12.9 grade steel. The steel options would most likely be plain or cadmium plated, or zinc plated. If steel was used, I’m thinking that you would either want to paint the bolts after installation or smear them for 100% coverage with grease.

So then, who votes for which options?
 
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Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
I'm on board with that.

Since he is screwing into a threaded steel plate, My specific choice would have been this - https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=6751
@ $0.65 each.
...With a lock washer & lot of grease on the threads & either paint or a lot of grease on the rest of it.

If the boat owner said that it was likely to get sprayed with salt water on a regular basis, then I might go back to stainless.

Quite frankly, I think that either one would be fine.
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Guys,

I get intimate with a lot of boats. The vast majority of sailboat builders use SS. In fact I can't think of one who does not use SS for affixing the mounts to the boat..... The majority of builders simply run lag screws into glass encapsulated wood stringers/mount beds.

Just a few builders who use SS bolts for mounting the engines to the stringers.......

Morris
Gunboat
Hunter
Marlow/Hunter
Catalina
Cape Dory
Bristol
Beneteau
Jenneau
Hanse
C&C
Able
Saga Yachts
Southern Cross
Sydney 38
Tartan
Leopard
Lyman-Morse
Cal
Lagoon
CS Yachts
Ericson
J-Boat
O'day
Pearson
Pacific Seacraft
etc.
etc.
etc...
 
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