Question for O 240 owners

[Hydro Therapy]

I've been contemplating the purchase of an Asymetrical spinnaker for my O 240. I'm curious if any other O 240 owners fly a spinnaker. If so I'm a little confused on how the tack line would be run. The headsail furler mounts so close to the bow that I don't see how you could run a tack line ahead of the furler. I've seen photos of boats that run the tack line behind the furler. It seems to me that it would be better to have it ahead of the furler. That is just an assumption on my part. I have no experience with spinnakers.

I attached a picture that shows the stainless mount for the furler. It shows how close it is to the bow.

Thanks

 

[GregL564]

I haven't investigated yet how to rig an asym. I have the same bow fitting for my furler. Let me know if you figure it out.
Best,
Greg

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Searching the web. It looks like a product called a Tacker would be a good choice. The tack line would attach to the Tacker, run downward, maybe to a small block that would be attached to the furler mount and back to a cleat.

Still undecided, I would like to find a reasonably priced used Asymmetric. Not sure how much I would really use it. My wife and I like to coastal cruise. I could see using it for that application as long as the wind is light.

 

[Brian S]

No, the ATN Tacker is a device designed to fly a symmetrical spinnaker without a pole. Sym spins are usually flown with the pole holding the tack to windward. The pole requires a mast fitting, uphaul, downhaul, and on bigger boats, a foreguy. And the ATN Tacker still requires a tack line to pull downwards and adjust the height of the tack. Symmetrical spinnakers flown this way can also have the drawback of having a bit too much curve in the "luff," compared to asyms.

An asymmetrical spinnaker just needs a tack line to pull downwards, and sheets (well, along with halyard, of course.)

The problem with the 240, from what I see, is the stemhead fitting was designed for a roller furler from the get-go. The pic you posted doesn't show any of the bow deck arrangement. As much as I want a 240, I haven't had a chance to poke around on one yet. But it looks as if the stemhead fitting consists only of a tang to which one attaches the forestay and thus roller furling drum.

Completely different boat, I know, but here's my 192:

You can see the stemhead fitting has 3 holes, 1 for forestay, and then maybe 2 more. In the pic, the snap shackle with yellow line is my jib. I could probably shackle a block for the asym tack to the stemhead fitting. You can also see 2 more blocks, one laying on the deck (which is my asym tack line block) and the other standing up with white/blue line for my hank on jib downhaul. These are attached to a through-deck U bolt, which is a factory standard fitting for the original wire luff jib furler (which was horrible, hence the hank on jib.)

So what you might have to do, should you decide to use an asym, is to through-bolt, with backing plate, a pad eye on the deck a few inches behind the stemhead fitting. With holes properly epoxy potted through the cored deck, of course.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Thanks Brian, your information is definitely beneficial. I was thinking that the tack line should go in front of the furler but it looks like behind is fine.

 

[Brian S]

Unless you have a bowsprit, you really have no choice but to have the tack line behind the forestay. Besides, the tack of the sail is going to fly up above the forestay anyway. I run mine up to a rail mount bullseye fairlead on the bowsprit, next to the bicolor light. It gets the tack out maybe 6" in front of the forestay. I still gybe it outside the luff of the chute, rather than inside but in front of the forestay.

Mine is actually fairly small. And it's kinda ugly. But it came with the boat. You can see how the lazy sheet sometimes hangs on the tack snap shackle for me. Which is nice.

You can see from my pulpit bases and cleats in the previous pic, there's really no way for me to even put on a removable deck mount sprit. Since the 192 isn't remotely a racing boat, the chute is just something I play with because I can, and almost no one else on the lake save racers ever flies one. Besides, it's a fair amount of work to rig and try to gybe solo on such a narrow and small lake. It would be much better on, say, the Chesapeake or something, where I could hold a reach for a long time.

When I first started playing with it, and when I got the boat, the halyard block was up at the top of the mast. So I only played with it in really light wind. So light, in fact, I would drop the main to keep it flying, like in this pic:

Since then, I have moved the halyard down to maybe a foot above the hounds. Now I don't worry about breaking the top of the mast off from side loading

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Thanks Brian, you've cleared up some questions, concerns of mine. I like that you use a bullseye on your pulpit. I thought about that but was afraid it may put to much pressure on the pulpit. Glad to see that's an option.

 

[Brian S]

Thanks Brian, you've cleared up some questions, concerns of mine. I like that you use a bullseye on your pulpit. I thought about that but was afraid it may put to much pressure on the pulpit. Glad to see that's an option.

Ha! I worry about that too! So far I don't use the asym in very high winds, so no problem yet! Also, it came rigged with blocks on the rear "handles" which are like just the side pieces of a pushpit. Standard design on the 192 and 222. I worry about stress on them, too. Oh, well, if you don't break anything once in a while, you aren't pushing fast enough, I guess!

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Well I did it, ordered an asymmetrical spinnaker today. Also ordered a chute for it. I ran the halyard. I will figure the rest out when it comes in.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Jackdaw]

While an ATN tacker was indeed designed originally for use with an symmetric kite, it CAN be used with an asym. It's handy when (like in the OPs case) the tack cannot get in front of the pulpit. Then a block mounted near the bow for the tack line can take the tack line up and not get fouled. I suggest this solution to lots of people. The only real down-side is that the kite cannot project to windward when sailing deep as the tack is held near the forestay. But other than that it's a decent solution.

Taking the asym to the bow pulpit is generally not a good idea once the boat/kite gets larger. I can tell you for a fact that while reaching the kite would tear the pulpit right off even our smaller boat, if not really damage with the loads.

 

[Brian S]

Jackdaw, that's good to know about the ATN Tacker and asyms.

My chute isn't much bigger than a genoa. I guess it's more fun to play with than be effective... If it gets windy, I'll not run the tack through the pulpit fairlead.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Thanks for the replies.

The sailmaker suggested using the Tacker on my boat, due to my current setup. The sail comes with a cheap Tacker, not the ATN. I also ordered the chute. I paid a little more by going through the sailmaker as opposed to buying online. I figured the extra will be worth the knowledge he can provide.

 

[Brian S]

Jackdaw, do you know on the ATN Tacker, is it possible to blow the tack? Isn't that one way to bring in an asym if things go pear shaped: blow the tack and haul in by the sheet?

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw, do you know on the ATN Tacker, is it possible to blow the tack? Isn't that one way to bring in an asym if things go pear shaped: blow the tack and haul in by the sheet?

The tack of the asym is held to the tacker by a normal shackle. These can be hard to blow when fully loaded up. That might limit you a bit, but giving a big ease (1/3 of the hoist) on the halyard will normally pop the kite.

 

[MaritimeTees]

Jackdaw, do you know on the ATN Tacker, is it possible to blow the tack? Isn't that one way to bring in an asym if things go pear shaped: blow the tack and haul in by the sheet?

This is the get down on the tacker from manufacturer.
Tacker is a useful device that will control the tack of a cruising or conventional spinnaker by fastening it loosely over a furled headsail. It prevents the tack from blowing off to leeward. In addition to improving performance it also prevents the tack line from loading against or chafing the pulpit and lifelines.The Tacker is a ABS plastic saddle that distributes the load over the furled headsail without chafe or damage. It’s easily attached and will slide up and down according to how you trim the spinnaker. The Tacker can also be used to set a conventional spinnaker without using a pole. This positions the spinnaker tack just as if the pole were brought forward to the headstay (as you would do on a reach).

Of course you can fly a spinnaker without a pole







or the Tacker, but bear in mind that a conventional spinnaker is designed to fly a couple of feet above the lifelines. Its foot (between the clew and the tack) should always be horizontal. Securing the spinnaker tack to the deck is not the best way to set the sail. It is too low and the spinnaker will chafe on the bow pulpit and lifelines. If you add a pennant or a downhaul, the spinnaker falls off to leeward and the pennant chafes on the pulpit and the sail looses its shape.That's when the Tacker saves the day. It holds the tack, and the luff, of the spinnaker close to the centerline of the boat and it can be adjusted up and down with the downhaul for a perfect trim.

 

[GregL564]

Any thoughts on a whisker pole vs an Asym? I have my mast down now and thinking I should run a messenger line just in case I want to rig one or the other in the future without un-stepping my mast again.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Greg, it was very easy to run the halyard line through the mast on my 240. I did while the mast was down. I ran a metal fish through the mast. Then attached a fishing line to the end of the fish and pulled the fish out. I considered leaving the fishing line because at that point I wasn't sure if I was going to get a spinnaker. I ended up running a hoisting line. I pulled it through with the fishing line. Very simple, no obstructions in the mast.

 

[GregL564]

Thanks Mark. Sounds good. I'll run the line so I have it whenever I decide to do it... will be interested to hear your experiences with the Asym this summer.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

Finally got the cruising spinnaker. Today was the first time we used it. It definitely improved the day. In the morning the wind was very light, about 5 knots. We used the spinnaker for a coastal cruise from Somersault Pt to Atlantic City. Without the spinnaker we wouldn't of made it. The wind was that light. No problems with it at all. I'm glad I paid for the chute. It really makes it easy to douse the sail.

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Dbnichols]

I know this thread is a few year old but I wa hoping I could breath a little life back into it. Im anew 240 owner. We sail on a medium sized lake that runs primaily N & S. I find that I have exteneded times running downwind. On a somewhat narrow lake, the tacks are constant so I have been thinking about a spinnaker. I am still confused on sym vs asym. Any advice?