Boy taking sailing lessons is hit by boat propeller, dies

[Jackdaw]

Don't you want to rethink and perhaps restate that comment? If a group of young children are unable to participate in a YC sailing program without risking their lives then there is something terribly wrong with the program. As we all know most clubs employ college students with sailing background to teach the kids and run the crash boats. Wanna bet on how much boat handling training the YC did with the young folks running the program, and what sort of rules of conduct? Who instructed the 10 year old kids on how to behave on small outboard boats? The club damn well better have their insurance paid up and stand by for a large law suit because it's coming and is well deserved.
What a tragedy and so senseless.

Actually I gave it a LOT of thought.

I know people at this club. And my club run a program just like it, with a safety program that is (just like there) designed and vetted by US Sailing. And yes I'm torn up by what happened.

My point (and it may not have been clear, you're right), is that the programs ARE designed to strike a very good balance between safety and practicality. People ARE trained. But NO PROGRAM ANYWHERE, of any type, is designed to prevent 100% of accidents 100% of the time.

So they aim for 1 in a million things. And we as society accept that sad crazy stuff sometimes happens. What I would hate to see is a draconian change in the way things are done (seat belts in the safety boat anyone??) to decrease those odds from 1:1000000 to 1:1500000.

 

[Head Sail]

Don't you want to rethink and perhaps restate that comment? If a group of young children are unable to participate in a YC sailing program without risking their lives then there is something terribly wrong with the program. As we all know most clubs employ college students with sailing background to teach the kids and run the crash boats. Wanna bet on how much boat handling training the YC did with the young folks running the program, and what sort of rules of conduct? Who instructed the 10 year old kids on how to behave on small outboard boats? The club damn well better have their insurance paid up and stand by for a large law suit because it's coming and is well deserved.
What a tragedy and so senseless.

Your both right on this. This was an easily preventable accident, but that's why it's called an accident. Hope this serves a reminder to all that our inflatable dinghy can be very dangerous when carrying children. Always check to see if your passengers are secured before accelerating. Condolences to the family of the youngster and the young driver who has a lifetime to rethink a moment of inattention.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Don't you want to rethink and perhaps restate that comment? If a group of young children are unable to participate in a YC sailing program without risking their lives then there is something terribly wrong with the program. As we all know most clubs employ college students with sailing background to teach the kids and run the crash boats. Wanna bet on how much boat handling training the YC did with the young folks running the program, and what sort of rules of conduct? Who instructed the 10 year old kids on how to behave on small outboard boats? The club damn well better have their insurance paid up and stand by for a large law suit because it's coming and is well deserved.
What a tragedy and so senseless.

Yeah-- I wonder if the teenage "instructor" was hooked up to the engine kill-switch lanyard, for example. The motor stops instantly if the kill-switch retainer is pulled out. You can have all the training, certification, and field trials imaginable; but, if people don't follow the safety rules/protocols, then what? Parents themselves are usually not very good examples of following safety rules/procedures in my observation, even if they are aware of 'em.

 

[Head Sail]

Yeah-- I wonder if the teenage instructor was hooked up to the engine kill-switch lanyard, for example. The motor stops instantly if the kill-switch retainer is pulled out.

May not have made a difference KG. The driver is the one wearing the kill switch and was likely facing forward while accelerating when the accident occurred. The driver needs to make sure all are prepared for acceleration.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Hard to imagine the boy fell in w/o making audible sound; how big was this boat that the driver is unaware of his passengers? However, I suppose if it was a console boat, the driver might have been standing up facing forward as you say. Punches it; the boy falls in and gets sucked into the prop. It's all over in less than 3 or 4 seconds. Not much time to react.

 

[Daveinet]

I really don't like throwing blame around. None of us were there, so none know exactly what happened or what went wrong. If the boat is moving at all, its only a few seconds before an object in front of the boat is under the back of the boat. Contrary to what has been stated here, motors do not stop instantly when the kill switch is hit. it takes a few seconds for the motor to coast to a stop. You can take every known precaution, but things can still go wrong. People are human and make mistakes.
Hopefully someone who was there will review the situation and try to make the unforeseen seen, so we can make procedural changes in how we do things, but tossing blame around only makes us think we are better than we really are.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Well, this is a forum. People do not post stuff here for "non-discussion." The blame (fault) always lies with the operator of the vessel, i.e., the "skipper", at least as long as s/he is a legal adult--good skipper or bad. There just ain't no gettin' around it.

 

[Gunni]

Zodiac RIB workboat, fast boat.

 

[plenny7]

TV News piece:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Club-Pulled-Water-Long-Island-435242353.html
another one:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/07/19/centerport-boy-killed-sailing-lesson/

This story has a better description of the sequence of events (not to say that the article is correct, since every story I've ever had intimate knowledge of has had factual errors when it made it to print)

https://patch.com/new-york/huntington/10-year-old-boy-involved-serious-boating-accident-centerport

 

[Rick486]

Well, this is a forum. People do not post stuff here for "non-discussion." The blame (fault) always lies with the operator of the vessel, i.e., the skipper, at least as long as s/he is a legal adult--good skipper or bad. There just ain't no gettin' around it.

May not be a legal adult (is that 18 or 21 locally). I would be very interested in knowing what training the individual had, and what mandated protocols were in effect operation of the crash boat with the kids on the sailboats. I was not aware that the crash boat was an inflatable with a big outboard. Not a great crash boat. Too fast, and too small. Did the protocols allow the kids to sit on the tubes or in the seats? Were there seats? A local yacht club runs their sailing program close to our slip so I see the kids and adults sailing past us most days. Their crash boat is a f/g runabout around 18 ft or so with a 25 hp outboard. Lots of seats, not too fast.
I just can't imagine being this little boy's parents thinking they are doing a good thing by putting their boy in the YC sailing program. YC heads gotta roll on this, starting with the steward.
Edit: Upon zooming on the photo Gunni posted I see only the helmsman seat. No good for a crash boat.

 

[Kings Gambit]

If another (legal) minor was put "in charge" of the younger kids, then I can't say. But, I expect the parent(s) would share some fault. Often times junior sailing programs are operated by a sailing foundation that, technically, is a legal entity separate from the YC; with its own insurance I imagine, etc. YC's are typically 501c(7) non-profit mutual benefit corporations; foundations are 501c(3) charities. Also, FWIW, parents of the juniors have to sign legal hold-harmless waivers/agreements; enforceable or not I can't say. However, if the parents of the juniors are from the (non-boating) community at large I doubt they appreciate the risks of enrolling their kids in an on-the-water boating program.

 

[Jackdaw]

A small quick center-cockpit RIB is the chase boat of choice for 99% of the world yacht clubs. It lets them gets to boats pronto, pull up to them from any side, and push them if needed. And tow.

 

[Jackdaw]

If another (legal) minor was put "in charge" of the younger kids, then I can't say. But, I expect the parent(s) would share some fault. Oftentimes the junior sailing programs are operated by a sailing foundation that, technically, is a legal entity separate from the YC; usually with its own insurance I imagine, etc. YC's are typically 501c(7) non-profit mutual benefit corporations; foundations are 501c(3) charities. Also, FWIW, parents of the juniors have to sign legal hold-harmless waivers; enforceable or not I can't say. However, if the parents of the juniors are from the (non-boating) community at large I doubt they appreciate the risks of enrolling their kids in an on-the-water boating program.

Indeed, the WCSC (Wayzata Community Sailing Center) is a totally legally separate organization from the WYC (Wayzata Yacht Club), mostly for that reason.

 

[Rick486]

Geez. I guess I've been asleep at the switch the last 35 years when everyone is out there covering their asses in case their employees kill or maim someone. Who'd a thunk it? I once believed junior sailing programs were a great way for kids to learn a great sport and meet other kids who would turn out to be friends and professional associations later in life. With everything I've found out here, I am changing my opinion.

 

[shemandr]

I sailed in many events from Centerport YC and they have seasoned sailing instructors, race committee and sailors. They do things to a pretty high standard. I don't know for a fact but I would be shocked if the operators of the chase boats haven't been trained by USSA. Sometimes someone zigs when it should have been a zag and a tragedy happens. Prayers for the victims' family and the instructor who injured the student and performed CPR on him. Take a walk in his shoes. It won't be pleasant.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

When I read the first account that Jackdaw first placed in this thread, the instructor accelerated. The key is how fast did he accelerate which may have been too much given the fact he is dealing with 12 year old. If that is the case, where is the training in the instructor.

 

[Gunni]

The 18 y/o operator was also transported to the hospital and treated - for shock. There were two victims.

 

[Jackdaw]

From a law enforcement spokesman:
The kids, who were all wearing life vests, were plucked from the water into an adjacent motor boat, a Zodiac.
As the boat headed back to the dock, it accelerated and turned, hitting a wave. The 12-year-old boy fell backward into the water and got tangled in the moving boat propeller.

Same spokeman: No one is to blame.

Source: Boy Taking Sailing Lessons on Long Island Is Hit by Boat Propeller, Dies | NBC New York http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ater-Long-Island-435242353.html#ixzz4nP5Q5W1H

 

[Rick486]

From a law enforcement spokesman:
The kids, who were all wearing life vests, were plucked from the water into an adjacent motor boat, a Zodiac.
As the boat headed back to the dock, it accelerated and turned, hitting a wave. The 12-year-old boy fell backward into the water and got tangled in the moving boat propeller.

Same spokeman: No one is to blame.

Source: Boy Taking Sailing Lessons on Long Island Is Hit by Boat Propeller, Dies | NBC New York http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ater-Long-Island-435242353.html#ixzz4nP5Q5W1H

Reflects a great failing in our society today. No one is ever to blame for anything. Instead, they become "victims". The worst thing that could happen to this poor kid who was driving the launch and his supervisor is for them to believe the hype like these statements above that this death was not their failing.

 

[BigEasy]

I really don't like throwing blame around. None of us were there, so none know exactly what happened or what went wrong.. You can take every known precaution, but things can still go wrong. People are human and make mistakes.
Hopefully someone who was there will review the situation and try to make the unforeseen seen, so we can make procedural changes in how we do things, but tossing blame around only makes us think we are better than we really are.

Dave, you are absolutely correct in your observation. None of us knows the details of the events that occurred; however, some are convicting the instructor and yacht club officers without a clue as to the facts. "not using a kill switch", "yacht club heads gotta roll", "Only one seat", "Everyone covering their asses", Failing society". Geez sounds like closing arguments in a trial.
We don't know what happened and we will likely never know; however, I believe our judicial system is based on the premise of innocence until proven guilty. I am sure there will be reviews by the county district attorney and perhaps a grand jury review of the facts. Let the judiciary do their job; its not for us to speculate and judge. That being said, the best thing that can be derived from this tragedy is a thorough review of the facts by sailing associations and yacht clubs to make training programs for kids safer; however, all risks will never be eliminated from anything that we do. Are you going to stop sending your kids to school because they may be killed in an accident on a school bus, or because there may be lunatic who is going to shoot them on campus, are we not going to let them play baseball because they may get hit in the chest and die, etc. We all face risks on a daily basis and accept that as part of life. How many of us have had a close call driving, sailing, flying? Sometimes we get lucky and survive and sometimes we don't. This accident was a tragedy indeed and a young boy out having fun lost his life. It makes us all saddened and wonder what went wrong; however, the best we can do is analyze the facts, improve the programs, and move on. May this young boy rest in peace; may his parents come to accept his death in the spirit that he died doing something that he loved.