Another which boat thread.... I know... sorry!
- Thread starter Grum.man
- Start date
Thanks I was wondering if blowing it out was an option but didn't want to ask a dumb question!
My main concern with the water ballast in salt water is algae or barnacle growth like you see on the bottom of boats.Lots of water ballast stay in salt water all the time with no apparent damage to the ballast tank. Not sure what the concern would be unless it would be blisters but have never heard of that.
One of our boats is a MacGregor 26S (swing center board/displacement hull) and the last time out I tried 'blowing the ballast tank' with an air mattress 12 volt pump and it blew the water out the bottom of the boat in about 15 minutes or less. The ramp was very shallow where we were and I didn't want to back in as far to get the boat on the trailer. Without the ballast the boat floated higher so the trailer didn't have to be in as far.
Sure a water ballast boat is a little more tender than most keel boats but will still stiffen up at some point.
At about 18-20 degrees the Mac just digs in and is solid and I'd imagine other water ballast boats are the same. You aren't going to want to sail maybe any of these smaller boats in winds over 20 kts, but people do and the boat will.
The Mac is simple easy (fast) to rig and easier than about anything to launch as shown above without a ramp. The cockpit is large and the tiller doesn't come that far forward. I much rather have it than the space a wheel would take up.
The rear berth is larger than the berth on our 37' Endeavour and I'll bet larger that about any boat that has been mentioned. Still I don't think I'd recommend it to you considering what you seem to be looking for, but for someone else that is reading this thread take a look at a displacement water ballast boat like the MacGregor 26S or others. They have a lot to offer,
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
I could be way off base but I consider the effort involved to be similar to setting up a camper for a weekend getaway which usually takes 30 minutes to an hour which I am alright with. In my mind I see me moving it around to different areas from time to time on the trailer to try out new scenery. I have a pretty fast airplane so trips even as far away as Florida to get on the boat isn't a big deal. Sailing it all the way to Florida (for example) would take more time than I could take off work.
I realize though that in reality I will probably find a spot I like and it will stay in a slip majority of the time only to be pulled out for cleaning and servicing which would be much nicer to do at home than in a boat yard.
Sumner: I don't dislike water ballast boats, it's that I prefer heavy keel/tall mast for myself to sail. I would sail a canoe if thats all I had! Like you, I have been at this for a very long time. My boat will hold well at 35% and that can make you very nervous but the point is it will do it if necessary. I sail in Bodega Bay (Blowdega Bay nickname) so 20k+ winds are common and even if its reefing time we sail it anyway. I didn't sail in those conditions as much last season though.
Compass Rose's rear berth is larger than a full Queen bed. Carole and I are getting so old we said if it was just a floating cabin this time.........we'll take it! ha With the tall mast and 1040lb keel this is not a weekender style boat. It takes 6' of water to just float it off the trailer! I leave this sucker in the water for months, not days. It takes hours to launch or retrieve these boats.
This guy would do well with the shorter mast and retractable keel and tiller. They are nice trailerables. Another point is his $20k max.
My best, Chief
Compass Rose's rear berth is larger than a full Queen bed. Carole and I are getting so old we said if it was just a floating cabin this time.........we'll take it! ha With the tall mast and 1040lb keel this is not a weekender style boat. It takes 6' of water to just float it off the trailer! I leave this sucker in the water for months, not days. It takes hours to launch or retrieve these boats.
This guy would do well with the shorter mast and retractable keel and tiller. They are nice trailerables. Another point is his $20k max.
My best, Chief
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I love trailer boats because they are able to be moved large distances in a short time to allow access to distant sailing venues and while being moved the boat serves as an RV on the road. We keep a boat on a trailer just to take trips to different bodies of water around the country. Some mistake the function of a trailer boat as a boat that can be stored on a trailer and will not require the expense of a wet slip. These folks will soon find out that trailering and rigging the boat is a time consuming endeavor that gets old rather quick. They will soon find themselves making excuses why not to go out and the boat will get used less and less. Boat ownership is just part of the boating experience and having a boat in a wet slip just opens up the possibilities of going to the boat and getting on the water in a matter of minutes; how many times I have gone to check up on the boat and ended up taking an evening sail for an hour or so. Having the boat on a slip also buys you a membership on the slip neighbors boating club and I find it very enjoyable to just sit around in the boat exchanging stories with the neighbors. A boat sitting on a trailer in a parking lot or at home does not offer much in the boating experience sense. Trailer boats are based on a design compromise to make them easy trailer with a small truck or family vehicle and to make them easy to launch and retrieve from the average public ramps. ease of rigging and stepping and unstopping the mast is another design consideration. These compromises result in a boat limited in size, displacement and sailing capabilities. A price well worth paying for the ability to trailer but if the personal goals are to have a boat on a slip the trailerable might not be the right fit. I don't believe in purchasing boats intended for a short temporary goal as the time and effort and likely monetary loss upon the resale is bad business. I always say learn to sail the boat that you ultimately envision yourself and buy the boat that will best meet all your needs for the foreseeable future. For the same price of a good size trailerable you can get a fixed keel 28' to 30' boat that will be more comfortable, offer better performance and take you out into coastal waters for a more complete cruising experience. Of course there will be slip fees to be paid year around but that is the price for the full enjoyment of the sailing experience. Years ago a very good friend lent me a boat for 2-3 years when he was out of the country and I paid the slip and registration fees and the insurance. at the end of the loan I felt like I had purchased a boat and sold it with no loss and was better for the enjoyment I had gotten out of it. It was a good deal for both and it shows that boat ownership is overrated and what you really enjoy and should be willing to pay for is the experience.
I'm partial to the Seaward 25 (cause we have one). Don't let anyone tell you they're a poor sailor, as that's far from the truth. Sure, not a good choice if you want to race, but it handles rough water well, actually sails up wind well, and loves to beam reach and sail down wind. It helps to have good sails. We replaced ours last year and the boat sails like a different boat. It makes a great small cruising boat. It has a fair amount of room inside, lots of storage, lots of room in the cockpit, and a pretty large v-birth. The diesel engine is a nice upgrade from an outboard and is really fuel efficient. We've added refrigeration, solar charging, composting head, and a custom v-birth mattress to ours, so we cruise pretty comfortable in it.
The other boats you listed such as the Catalina 25 and Hunter 26 / 260 are good choices, as well.
It usually takes us a couple of hours to launch ours, so we don't take it other places unless we can at least spend a week or two sailing there. Most of the summer we keep it in a slip at our local lake, and trailer it other places for vacations.
The other boats you listed such as the Catalina 25 and Hunter 26 / 260 are good choices, as well.
It usually takes us a couple of hours to launch ours, so we don't take it other places unless we can at least spend a week or two sailing there. Most of the summer we keep it in a slip at our local lake, and trailer it other places for vacations.
Thank you for the very insightful post. I guess my take is that even if I was interested in a larger boat that couldn't be trailered it would still have to be a shallow draft boat for navigating the shallow waters around the NC coast. That being said I don't think there will be a huge performance difference in one of those versus the boats I have mentioned but then again, what do I know that's why I am posting here. Cost rise exponentially with larger boats too with hull cleanings, rigging, slip fees, more systems to be maintained. If I decide to upgrade in a few years it will only take a few months of paying for a slip on a boat I am trying to sell to offset any looses I may encounter of a trailer sailor.
After reading all these posts (28 of ‘em), here’s my two cents:
Our first boat (“Our” meaning after getting married; had another boat prior to that), was a Falcon daysailer 16-foot, sailed all over Rhode Island, Narraganset Bay (sp?), out to Block Island, the length of Lake Tahoe (in one afternoon), San Francisco Bay, also out the Gate and down the coast to Half Moon Bay with it. Had a cuddy and we even slept on board using the boom to make a boom tent. This was a really fun boat!
Later, looking to move up, had targeted the Catalina 25 swing keel model, bought a Ford F-150 heavy-half to tow it, (still have the pickup) but wound up with the Hunter 35. So that’s for the background.
If it were me, I’d spring for a centerboard (for the east coast). I have a hard time warming up to water ballast because …. it’s my opinion. And one thing I really don’t like about it is transporting zebra mussels even if clorox is supposed to kill them.
Tiller: Have a wheel on our boat but for a 25 footer I think the tiller would be a better option.
25-foot boat: Two is comfortable, three is a crowd. On our daysailer we actually had 4 adults and one child at one time! It worked but not recommended. We were all college students so what do we know?
Tall rig: Nice in light air, reef in heavy air. Harder to rig but I think worth it. That would be my option.
Trailer 25-footer: Good for reaching new destinations, yes. But a bit of a pain to tow. But then the east coast doesn’t have any mountains. I know, I know, hey guys, they’re foothills! 14,000 feet is what we call a mountain.
Trailer in salt water: I don’t like it. Don’t like dunking it. With our daysailer I never got the axel in the water but with a bigger boat I don’t see how it can be avoided.
Anyway, got to get up early tomorrow. Boat is on the hard in the boat yard. Gotta wax the Stb’d side (did the port side today), work on the Max Prop and prep it for painting (zinc). Put some more bottom paint on. Splash on Tuesday morning. Oh, it’s not a trailerable boat.
That’s just my two cents along with some free opinions.
P.E (Civil), PP (single engine land), former 172 RAM 160 owner (flew to LA, Vegas, Seattle, Glacier Bay, Sitka), first flight in a Grumman Cheetah (joy stick).
Our first boat (“Our” meaning after getting married; had another boat prior to that), was a Falcon daysailer 16-foot, sailed all over Rhode Island, Narraganset Bay (sp?), out to Block Island, the length of Lake Tahoe (in one afternoon), San Francisco Bay, also out the Gate and down the coast to Half Moon Bay with it. Had a cuddy and we even slept on board using the boom to make a boom tent. This was a really fun boat!
Later, looking to move up, had targeted the Catalina 25 swing keel model, bought a Ford F-150 heavy-half to tow it, (still have the pickup) but wound up with the Hunter 35. So that’s for the background.
If it were me, I’d spring for a centerboard (for the east coast). I have a hard time warming up to water ballast because …. it’s my opinion. And one thing I really don’t like about it is transporting zebra mussels even if clorox is supposed to kill them.
Tiller: Have a wheel on our boat but for a 25 footer I think the tiller would be a better option.
25-foot boat: Two is comfortable, three is a crowd. On our daysailer we actually had 4 adults and one child at one time! It worked but not recommended. We were all college students so what do we know?
Tall rig: Nice in light air, reef in heavy air. Harder to rig but I think worth it. That would be my option.
Trailer 25-footer: Good for reaching new destinations, yes. But a bit of a pain to tow. But then the east coast doesn’t have any mountains. I know, I know, hey guys, they’re foothills! 14,000 feet is what we call a mountain.
Trailer in salt water: I don’t like it. Don’t like dunking it. With our daysailer I never got the axel in the water but with a bigger boat I don’t see how it can be avoided.
Anyway, got to get up early tomorrow. Boat is on the hard in the boat yard. Gotta wax the Stb’d side (did the port side today), work on the Max Prop and prep it for painting (zinc). Put some more bottom paint on. Splash on Tuesday morning. Oh, it’s not a trailerable boat.
That’s just my two cents along with some free opinions.
P.E (Civil), PP (single engine land), former 172 RAM 160 owner (flew to LA, Vegas, Seattle, Glacier Bay, Sitka), first flight in a Grumman Cheetah (joy stick).
You are missing my point. I can understand if it is a question of budget or time constraints but to correlate the cost of slip fees with the price of a boat is not the best outlook. On the average, boats in slips get used more frequently than those sitting on trailers. It can be said that it is a better utilization of the investment in the purchase of the boat. I have not met anyone that enjoys the drudgery of repeatedly trailering and rigging a sailboat just to be able to go sailing. That is not the best part of the boating experience. I agree that slip fees do not purchase anything tangible but it is the cost associated with enjoying boating to its fullest. In your case where you reside a little ways away from the coast having a boat on a slip could be regarded as the rent you pay for having a beach cottage. You could drive to the boat on a Friday night and wake up early Saturday morning in the water. All I suggest is that you do not discard the idea until you have tried it. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is best but just to open up the eyes to those that may not have experienced keeping a boat in the water. Boats we buy and sell, we cannot take them with us and all we get is the fun and enjoyment of their use so why not use them to their fullest.
Many of you are assuming that a trailer sailor is not using his boat as much as those of you who have them in the water all year. At least for me, and likely many of us, I keep my boat in the water for a long timeframe. She was in the water at Bodega Bay from June 1 to mid Nov. last year . I live 200 miles from the sea so I store her all winter out of the salt water in her boat house. I doubt if many of you are sailing in January and I sure am not up here in N. Cal.. I could easily buy a larger boat but do not want a larger boat! I have a 6" thick queen bed, TV, head, galley, fish finder, full electronics, laptop, steering, heater, solar, microwave, fans, toaster, coffee maker, microwave, refer, inverters, and Air Conditioner when needed. Chief
From another Mech E.. I wanted a trailerable but after doing that with a couple of friends I decided that I'd buy a trailerable but not a trailer.. Bought a brand new Spirit23 with a pop top.. Had a good friend with a trailer .. he'd let me use it to take the boat home to work on.. otherwise, as others have said, the hassle of rigging/un-rigging was more than I wanted to deal with, especially after coming in tired after a few days out and having to de-rig.. Hot/sunburned/tired.. . Much over 23/24 feet, the mast becomes a heavier job.. There are a bunch of nice boats out there in the 24-27 foot range that are "trailerable" .. have fun deciding..
Jackdaw: Yes, my 1998 is a tall mast, wing keel and they were only made a few years. I am sure I need not tell you why Catalina quit making the tall mast. I hunted online a long time to find this boat. Besides being a tall mast, it had never been in the ocean until I put her in Bodega Bay in 2013. She was one cherry boat/galvanized trailer with 3 crispy sails, 150,135 and full batten main. I bought her a new 9.8 Tohatsu gas sipper with 6 gallon tank that just fits her fuel locker. Probably not as fast as you would like but moves pretty well for our "floating cabin"! ha My Best, Chief
kloudie1: You got it! 24 to 26' trailerables are definitely not a good idea for a weekender type boat. Maybe if you are 22................. Chief
Agreed. For us, the fact that the boat is trailerable makes it possible to take it to other locations to sail. Makes for some great trips. If we had to step the mast every time we wanted to use the boat, it would be a lawn ornament. By keeping it in a slip locally most of the time, it gets a lot of use. It also saves us winter storage fees up north here, when the boat is covered with snow for what seems like an eternity each year.
sesmith: You didn't even mention the salt wear and tear on our boats plus worrying about rough seas and violent weather! You must not be 22 either! ha Chief
Chief, I was 30 something at the time.. 1978.. and We had a fine time weekending on the 23.. a big mosquito bar for the pop top kept the bugs outside.. the stub keel let her float in 2' of water.. she was fine for coastal "camping".. we'd done that on bicycles and kayak, so the 23 was a real treat! all a matter of perspective!
