New Furler Question

[Ward H]

I've replaced all my standing rigging over the past couple of years and it's time to finish up that project by replacing the forestay. It and the Furlex 100S furler are 17 years old.
While I like DYI projects, this is more than I want to tackle so I asked my yard about it.
They consulted their rigger who cautioned that the Furlex might not come apart intact and parts might be hard to find so I should be prepared to replace it.
They suggested the CDI FF4 furler with bearing upgrade. They order several at a time and have them shipped in with the luff extrusions laid out flat. They won't install one that was shipped with the extrusion in a coil. They also won't install without the bearing upgrade as they don't like the results of the non bearing version. They know I like DYI and have always been very helpful with suggestions about my projects whether they are involved or not so I am not worried about them trying to up sell something.
My sailmaker also recommends the CDI furler.

My only concern with the CDI is the internal halyard. Just seems strange to me.

I've looked at some other furlers but the CDI furler seems to offer the best bang for the buck.

Anything I am missing or should consider?

 

[agprice22]

I have installed several new CDI furlers. Do not worry about the coil. That is BS. You lay it out and carefully bend it straight over a couple of days. The bearing option is something I would pay for. I have paid for the upgrade, and it is fine. I am about to install a new FF9 on my new trimaran. It only comes with the bearings.
They are easy to install. They transport well. Just remember to use toggles.

 

[agprice22]

Oh... it is not useful if you want to change sails! 1 furler... 1 sail... a foam luff does help maintain sail shape when reefing.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Is your boat a masthead or fractional rig? I put an FF2 on my Mac 26S. There is no easy way to tension the halyard on a CDI. As old as my Hood is on my Hunter, I prefer it to the CDI. The CDI is the best bang for the buck though. The coiled foil is not a problem. They all ship that way.

 

[Joe]

I don't like the CDI system..... it promoted NEVER removing the sail.

 

[svchickadee]

I installed a cdi furler on my oday 25. I purchased the unit from D&R with a new forestay. Rudy at D&R advised that the bearing option was not worth the money so I did not get it. Unroll the foil slowly and put it in a length of pvc pipe for a few days and it will straighten out. Cdi is the best furler for the money but the weakness is as one contributor described, the lower turnbuckle can not be accessed easily for tensioning and inspection. My lower turnbuckle had partially parted and I did not know it until dropping the mast. In the future I will inspect the turnbuckle regularly.

 

[FastOlson]

While the initial cost is a little higher, in the long haul I much prefer Harken both for their quality of engineering and support of their customers. Our 1995 Mk 2 Harken furler/reefer is still working fine.
In a year or so we plan to replace the headstay due to age (1995...) and will likely also install their current iteration of furler.
The old saying about quality being remembered (and appreciated) long after recalling the price paid... is as true as ever.
Regards,
Loren

ps: a couple of friends of mine moved up to larger performance cruisers after years of cruising and racing in their O'Day 25's. That model really delivers decent performance and comfort for its size. Hope you continue to enjoy yours!

 

[agprice22]

I don't like the CDI system..... it promoted NEVER removing the sail.

True! I think that is the main drawback. However, most cruisers and daysailors do not remove their headsails. The fact that I can reef my 150 down infinitely is perfect.

 

[agprice22]

I installed a cdi furler on my oday 25... the lower turnbuckle can not be accessed easily for tensioning and inspection. My lower turnbuckle had partially parted and I did not know it until dropping the mast. In the future I will inspect the turnbuckle regularly.

To inspect the turnbuckle... use visegrips and a rag. Lift the drum out of the cup, wrap a rag around the forestay, and clamp on the visegrips. This will hold the foil and drum out of the way. You can now adjust the forestay.
You must use caution when lowering the drum into the cup. This is an amputation risk! The edge of the cup is sharp, and the weight of the foil and drum will try to amputate your fingers on that edge.
Two people on this task makes it easy.
Also, you MUST use a toggle at the top of the forestay, or you will torque and eventually separate the swaged terminal fitting, your forestay will part, and your mast is in danger of coming down.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Ward;
I am a retired sailboat dealer, American Marine & Sail Supply, Inc. and I am quite familiar with the system. I promoted it for many years when I first heard of it and saw it meeting the inventor. It basically a one piece extrusion with its own internal halyard. This was great for trailerable sailboats as you could furl the sail up tying it tight with the jib sheets leaving it on the furler and taking the mast down for transport which was accomplished easily with mast raise systems that came with the Hunters and some Catalina sailboats most notably the Sport 22 and Catalina 250 both water ballast and wing keel. The mast raise system is basically the same as the Hunters which I designed for Hunter. Raising the sail with its own internal halyard was a great plus. As to one comment about tensioning I was able to do that using a little trick learned and if you ever over tensioned, the extrusion would flex a little which was a key to lessen the tension. There is a life time warranty with the extrusion. Agprice pointed out precisely about the drum and how to clean or adjust. One key with any furler that the furling line comes out so it is not chafing on the drum cover and that applies to all furlers regarding routing of the furling line of any make.

As with any product there are pluses and minus and many will agree to disagree as you will find those who swear by others while many swear by CDI. All systems are good as I have dealt with every one of them over the years. It is a choice.

the only drawback is the furler shipped coiled up but there is a way to safely uncoil that and will be glad to discuss that with you. I would suggest though being shipped flat and straigt out. I hope this helps in your decision as to which way you go sir.

Crazy Dave Condon

 

[agprice22]

Two people are needed to handle the rolled foil. It is strapped securely in layers. You will open the foil in an open place. Your yard is good.
As far as straightening the foil, I have laid mine in the yard with 3 cinder blocks. I slide each end of the foil into a cinder block. I then use the 3rd cinder block to straighten the foil over several days til I can bend the foil past straight. I let it sit that way for several days.
The foil will relax and be straight. No problem. I have done it 3 times. I even did it in my basement once! Would it be nice to ship it straight? Sure, but that is probably not very likely. No one ever asked me if I wanted it shipped straight! Maybe if you talk to sailrite, they would help, but they have it drop shipped from CDI.

 

[agprice22]

Oh... I see your yard will get it shipped straight. Cool. But do not worry if they cannot. Also, check SBO and sailrite for the price.

 

[Ward H]

ps: a couple of friends of mine moved up to larger performance cruisers after years of cruising and racing in their O'Day 25's. That model really delivers decent performance and comfort for its size. Hope you continue to enjoy yours!

That is what we have found. We thought we would have moved up to a larger boat by now but the 25 fits us and the bay very well with just the right mix of comfort and performance.

I don't like the CDI system..... it promoted NEVER removing the sail.

As to changing sails, we don't. The first season with the boat I switched back and forth a few times trying out our 135 and 100 jibs. I settled on the 100 and now our new 108 jib. We get a great afternoon sea breeze all summer long and our sailing area isn't that big that I feel the need to switch our sails to match wind conditions. The 108 was built with furling in mind, with 3 furling points with foam luff strips.

With that con out of the way, it sounds like the CDI is a pretty good furler. If I trailered the boat or had it in a yard a few minutes away and had plenty of help dropping the mast I would attempt installing it my self.
In my current situation I am better off having the yard do it.

While several say having it shipped coiled is not a real issue, @Crazy Dave Condon suggests it be shipped flat, which gives credence to what the yard is saying about what they do.
As I said earlier, the yard is known for good advice and fair pricing. In fact, more than once they told me to do things myself to save the money or when I asked for a quote on something they looked at it and don't waste my money, it wasn't needed.

If we had a larger, newer boat that I would be keeping for 20 > years, I probably would go with a Harken or better system but it sounds like the CDI matches the O'day 25 and our use quite well.

I will be saving this thread and showing it to the yard guy to ensure they know about using a toggle at the top of the forestay and so I remember about checking the turnbuckle.

Nobody suggested I can delay changing the forestay or that the Furlex would come apart easy, it sounds like I am on the right track with that.


Thanks for advice. Much appreciated as always!

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I communicated with Ward and he thanked me. As pointed out the CDI furler comes either straight or coiled. Coiled is a lot less in shipping of course but takes two or more people in the beginning to uncoil and make it straight by coiling it backwards, tying with ties leaving out in the sun for the day. By yourself it is difficult but since I had employees, that was not an issue. The choice of furlers is a personal choice which I leave up to the buyer.

 

[Jackdaw]

The 100s is so much better a product. I would referb your existing unit instead of buying the CDI. Sounds like the rigger just wants to sell a new unit.

 

[Ward H]

You know, it would be worth a call to the Furlex dealer to find out about parts.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hi Ward! Just a few weeks away now! I finally purchased a new furler and will end my days of hank-on head sails. Rich suggested the CDI for me as well but I wanted Harken Mark IV instead. He and Dave collaborated on a good price for the unit, installation and Dave is also going to modify my sail. I was talking about a new sail, but Dave looked at my 150 and said he recommended that it hasn't reached the end of it's life yet even tho it needs some repairs. My point is that Rich was undoubtedly reading that you wanted a new furler, but I also predict that they would be perfectly willing and capable of refurbing your existing one as long as it's salvageable. They strike me as being fair and willing to help you any way you want to go. I'd guess it is Rich's personal preference to deal with the flat extrusion because it sounds like a hassle to deal with a coiled one, so why bother if you don't have to? I doubt you pay any extra. Personally, I'm pretty comfortable with the crew at Mariners but Richie's jokes maybe need a little improvement.

 

[LeeandRick]

When people start talking of the CDI the mechanical engineer in me rares it's wondering head. I remember reading a survey in Practical Sailor where it was the most well liked furler so my thought processing has probably had too many beers. I know they work fine but still, the fact that the luff tension is gained by compression on a small tube around a flexible cable and said tube can not remain in column. Also is there any safety factor gain with the standard halyard approach of other furlers? I sort of quit racing a few years ago but there is still environmental reasons for halyards to tighten and loosen (Sta-Set X) and being able to adjust luff tension at will from the cockpit is still a plus to me. I thought the new CDI luff tension could be adjusted at the tack.

 

[Ward H]

My point is that Rich was undoubtedly reading that you wanted a new furler, but I also predict that they would be perfectly willing and capable of refurbing your existing one as long as it's salvageable. They strike me as being fair and willing to help you any way you want to go.

I think that is what Rich is warning me of, that he and Dave feel the odds are high it won't be salvageable and I will incur labor costs to find out.
I spoke to Rich again this morning and he will do whatever I ask. And I do trust him on advice, he has stopped me from spending money I didn't need to, before.
Now that I am over the shock of spending un-bugeted boat bucks this spring, I asked for a quote on a new Furlex 100S, which Rich feels is the next step up from the CDI.

I have been upgrading the boat so I have the sail trim tools needed to gain a bit of performance when I feel like playing with it. It sounds like the CDI was built for trailer sailors so it would hold up well to being taken down routinely. My mast stays up. The CDI doesn't make changing sails easy. I don't change sails during the season but I may want to as I get more experience and sail more and further.
While it may be a good lower cost option for me, I may regret not having the external halyard later. I went cheap once on a new sail and the following year I replaced it with a very fine sail. Now why would I go cheap on another main component of sail hardware I am a sking myself.

So I will see what a new Furlex costs and decide from there.

 

[Jackdaw]

When people start talking of the CDI the mechanical engineer in me rares it's wondering head. I remember reading a survey in Practical Sailor where it was the most well liked furler so my thought processing has probably had too many beers. I know they work fine but still, the fact that the luff tension is gained by compression on a small tube around a flexible cable and said tube can not remain in column. Also is there any safety factor gain with the standard halyard approach of other furlers? I sort of quit racing a few years ago but there is still environmental reasons for halyards to tighten and loosen (Sta-Set X) and being able to adjust luff tension at will from the cockpit is still a plus to me. I thought the new CDI luff tension could be adjusted at the tack.

I've often thought about the PS report as well.

First, I would agree that they are very reliable, as there is very few parts. But with that simplicity comes a loss of function.

Second, many of the reports probably come from newer sailors with little experience with other furlers. It usually is a first -furler for many. And I know of very few (if any) sailors that have gone from a high-end halyard based furler to a CDI. So a lot of the reports are probably based on that viewpoint of not having anything to compare it to.

The internal halyard is rather clever. It cuts cost because there is now no need for a top swivel, and the bearing systems are greatly simplified because there is no tension on the rolling parts. So much cheaper.

But the loss of the use of the external halyard means no luff tension adjustment while sailing, a HUGE loss of sail control. And even adjusting it staticly is a fiddlely mess.

The PITA factor in adjusting it, or even worse lowering the sail means it never happens on most boats. We pull our jib down constantly to check for wear, fix telltails etc. And we adjust tension constantly based on conditions.

And yes the safety factor. If your head stay parts , often the halyard and the luff of the headsail will hold the rig up long enough for you to take the load off. A CDI system will simply fall down.