Jacklines for safety - where mounted?

Jackdaw · Oct 31, 2016

Never attach a tether to a lifeline.

Jackdaw · Oct 31, 2016

Boat size does not factor. When you get thrown hard by a wave or whatever, that load is the same on all boats. And its HUGE. Thats why tethers should be attached to D-rings on the deck, or to tight jack lines attached to same. One of the goals is to reduce leverage. There is big leverage on lifelines; on old, small, lightly built boats in particular. No disrespect intended, but I would bet if you threw yourself hard against your lifeline the stanchion would bend, break, or the deck would pull up.

These are of course worse-case scenarios, but thats what this gear is supposed to be there for. If you can't trust it in every case, it's worse than useless. Its unreliable.

Kings Gambit · Oct 31, 2016

Jackdaw said:
Never attach a tether to a lifeline.

Yeah. That's big-time verboten. I have deck mounted D-rings, through-bolted. A pair on each side of the deck; one of the pair near the bow and the other just outboard of where the cockpit combing begins. I have another two pair in the cockpit, through-bolted to the sole forward and to the transom aft, on each side. The jacklines attach to the D-rings; the tether attaches to me at the harness then to the jacklines.

David in Sandusky · Oct 31, 2016

We run dock lines from the bow cleat to the syern cleat. The bowline lies right against the cabin. The captain must always have his tether attached if on deck, unless a crew member is qualified on the MOB drill. (We do have a strong point in the cockpit) The Admiral and efuses to accept her qualification, so I am hooked up unless a qualified guest skipper is aboard. In rough weather, all are tethered if they leave the cockpit.

I'm thinking through a system that would run along the centerline of the boat. Attaching to this would keep us from going overboard into the water where recovery is difficult.

cb32863 · Nov 1, 2016

Sumner said:
I see the point you guys are making but considering the dynamics feel safe with what I have for this boat. I'd do something different on the Endeavour. The Mac's life line is only 16 inches off the deck and if I'm tethered in I'm going forward on my hands and knees, so my center of gravity is very low and I wouldn't be going very far on this tether to gain much momentum.

If someone else feels different then run the jack lines along the bases of the stanchions where there would be no leverage on the attach points. The way they are made you could run the lines through the base.

I personally can't see a mac user putting D-rings in but if they want to that is their choice. Also we are not out in 8+ foot waves in these boats and I wonder what percentage of these boats even have jack-lines, tethers and harnesses. Unless I'm in some really freak situation I'm still safer than doing nothing.

The main point I was trying to make in the first post was that tether you can get from West Marine and probably other places is a great width for our boats and keeps you in the center of the boat,

Sumner
============================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

But you are still saying it is OK to attach a tether lifelines and it is not. I have never heard anyone say it is OK to attach tethers to a lifeline, quite the opposite. It is not safe to attach a tether to a lifeline period. No matter how you are crawling or walking or whatever on your boat's deck. Safety best practices aren't really a "depends on the boat" kind of thing. Hopefully you never have to rely on your tether holding.

JohnCTV21 · Nov 1, 2016

Jackdaw said:
Never attach a tether to a lifeline.

There is no argument that will ever justify tying a tether to a life line.

My Venture 21 has through bolted D rings.

Not because I expect to get caught in 8' seas, but because if I ever do, I'll stand the best chance of coming back here to tell the story.

alexco38 · Nov 1, 2016

Usually you run two jack lines for the length of the boat, one on each side. You clip the elastic line to the jack line and your harness. It allow you to move from the stern to the bow freely. The elastic give you some flexibility without tangling.
Clip the elastic to the life line is totally un-safe.

justsomeguy · Nov 1, 2016

On my Mac 25, I run one inch tubular webbing from a set of secured cleats on either side of the cabin top, forward to the similarly well-backed anchor cleat, with just enough slack to clear the pop top and forward hatch.
Stay on the windward side, too. Hopefully, you'll just get knocked over towards the lee side, and not off.

thinwater · Nov 1, 2016

All I can say is "oh dear." It almost sounds like a dare as to whether I can damage the stanchions by banging into them. I can, easily.

It's not just about bending. It's also about the deck leaks you will start.

Sumner · Nov 1, 2016

In the interest of safety I've deleted all my posts in this thread. I only hope that someone actually gives the O.P. some specific advice on equipment and placement that pertains to his boat,

Sumner

BudGates · Nov 1, 2016

I have 2 D-rings through bolted with backing plates on my 26-classic. One D-ring is placed between the mast and the pop-top, the other just behind the mainsheet strap-eye. A 10 foot tether attached to the cockpit D-ring allows access to everything from the transom to the mast. Another attached to the forward D-ring allows access to everything from the forward portion of the cockpit to the bow. This option also allows me to attach one tether between both D-rings to serve as a jackline that the second tether can be clipped onto to give access to the whole boat.

kito · Nov 1, 2016

I have no jacklines set up on my H30 but would like to. Is it safe to say that a jackline, tether and harness are only designed to keep you from getting separated from the boat and not to actually keep you on deck? At 6'5" 230 lbs, I would stretch even the tightest webbing like a bow string. Along with a 6' tether, my butt would be dragging in the water even if the jackline was set up on each side of the mast down the middle. I guess multiple lengths of webbing would eliminate a lot of stretch but you would need 2 tethers so one is always attached?

Jackdaw · Nov 1, 2016

kito said:
I have no jacklines set up on my H30 but would like to. Is it safe to say that a jackline, tether and harness are only designed to keep you from getting separated from the boat and not to actually keep you on deck? At 6'5" 230 lbs, I would stretch even the tightest webbing like a bow string. Along with a 6' tether, my butt would be dragging in the water even if the jackline was set up on each side of the mast down the middle. I guess multiple lengths of webbing would eliminate a lot of stretch but you would need 2 tethers so one is always attached?

Great questions.

Best practice for jack-lines and tethers is to keep you on the boat. Therefore:
Jack-lines should be as short, and as tight as possible, typically running from mid-bow and ending at the companionway, each side.
Single point D-rings or short jacks in the cockpit to keep you from going off the back.
Harness leads as short as possible, double leads best. 2 short or 1 long one short.

Pogo 12.50 factory jacklines.
You can see the port- forward one running up to mid-bow.
And the very short one mid-cockpit for crew.

Gunni · Nov 1, 2016

A proper jackline has an adjustable end so that you can rig and tension it. You want a low-stretch webbing. Mine started on the side deck, but I have since moved them to the cabin top. I like and use the Wichard system (available at the SBO store) including the double tether:

Jackdaw · Nov 1, 2016

Gunni said:
A proper jackline has an adjustable end so that you can rig and tension it.

Exactly. In that picture of the 12.5, the ends of the jackline webbing is terminated to the D-ring with several loops of thin dyneema pulled very tight and tied secure. It then has UV-resistant shrink-wrap applied (the black stuff).

This is a start-of-the-art setup, designed to keep you as safe as possible.

justsomeguy · Nov 1, 2016

Gunni said:
A proper jackline has an adjustable end so that you can rig and tension it. You want a low-stretch webbing. Mine started on the side deck, but I have since moved them to the cabin top. I like and use the Wichard system (available at the SBO store) including the double tether:

Wouldn't a proper tether have a secure quick release on the user end? Especially when under tension?

Jackdaw · Nov 1, 2016

justsomeguy said:
Wouldn't a proper tether have a secure quick release on the user end? Especially when under tension?

While it might seem surprising, no. Why?

Many test have shown that while under high load (dragging through water), a person CANNOT OPEN a shackle. Too much load. Simply cannot. So best practice has harnesses or vest incorporate a line/webbing cutter. THAT you can do under any load, and is good for lines as well.

Attached to every offshore vest.

Jackdaw · Nov 1, 2016

Footnote: A US-Sailing Safety at Sea Seminar I attended did a test - let anyone who wanted to be lifted off the the ground in a harness and see if they could release out of an old-school tether with a quick-release shackle. NO ONE could.

justsomeguy · Nov 1, 2016

Jackdaw said:
Footnote: A US-Sailing Safety at Sea Seminar I attended did a test - let anyone who wanted to be lifted off the the ground in a harness and see if they could release out of an old-school tether with a quick-release shackle. NO ONE could.

This type?

I certainly agree about the hook knife.