Polycarbonate Hunters hull cracking

Crazy Dave Condon · Jul 26, 2016

Most of the ACP boats were fine but some did experience problems with the outer skin due to the manufacturers sneaking in a new formulation without the knowledge of Hunter that created the cracks mentioned. As for class action suits, no there was none as for a long time Hunter stood by warranting the boats until they were well over the warranty period. Hunter lost money on those boats which is why they got away from acp. If you find a boat without those cracks, then you have one of the better built boats. When storing on the hard or trailer, remember to open the drain bail plug on the back and if covering with a boat cover, always a light color cover with vents as heat build up can harm these boats but can as well affect fiberglass too which I have seen. I would suggest storing under a roof vs. cover as many forgot what I just said about the lack of ventilation, color of covers and not opening the drain bail plugs on the transom. From your description, I would consider buying the 146. If ever attaching anything into ACP like a wood screw, suggest that you predrill most definitely.

flynhi4u · Jul 26, 2016

If it does crack it is repairable. They sail nicely and in the case of the 212 I worked on had a huge cockpit!

Sam

Crazy Dave Condon · Jul 27, 2016

Keep me in mind if you ever have issues. I guess I can say I told Hunter how to repair them in various ways.

Parsons · Jul 27, 2016

I have an ACP Hunter 216, I do live in "extreme temperatures", but I have never experienced the cracking some reported with these boats. That said, my boat is stored indoors, so although it does get below freezing, it is not subject to rapid changes. There have been numerous posts on this site, many narrated by Crazy Dave, explaining this boat's particular problems. Based on these and my experience, it seems that the fault was a cheap batch of plastic, not an inherent failure of the boat or design. Looking back five years, I would buy the boat again. It is a great daysailor design, and I guess the small sister 146 would be as well. Other than the cracking, the ACP is a good product -- it is more durable than fiberglass and takes minor dings and beaching without a mark. The rudder on the 216 is a VARA inserted rudder, rather than hung off the transom, and it is somewhat of a pain. I don't know that rudder on the 146.

Jackdaw · Jul 27, 2016

I have always likes these boats, and once came close to buying a Hunter 216. Designed by Glen Henderson, it is probably the sportiest boat Hunter ever built. But -

1) No one can ever tell the one you are looking at will never crack, based either on what year it is, or where it was stored.
2) The re-sale value with be forever tarnished by the specter of it possibly cracking some day.

Its really a shame. Nice boats otherwise.

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 1, 2016

Jackdaw, thank you for your comments and you are correct that ACP was tarnished when the manufacturers changed the formulation of the ACP that caused the cracks which affects the price of the many good boats out there.

Parsons · Aug 1, 2016

Of course the resale price hit that you're talking about only applies if you bought the boat new. For us that bought (are buying) used boats after the ACP news broke (in 2005?), we're getting a great deal on a great boat. As a buyer, I loved the stories about "cracking like an eggshell" when I bought a six year old boat with a sound hull. It's been stored in sub-zero temperatures since, and nary a crack.

Jackdaw · Aug 1, 2016

Parsons said:
Of course the resale price hit that you're talking about only applies if you bought the boat new. For us that bought (are buying) used boats after the ACP news broke (in 2005?), we're getting a great deal on a great boat. As a buyer, I loved the stories about "cracking like an eggshell" when I bought a six year old boat with a sound hull. It's been stored in sub-zero temperatures since, and nary a crack.

Agree, if you feel the the asking price factors that in based on your level of risk aversion.

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 2, 2016

this was not new news in 2005 but known when taking acp on by Hunter which is why care was given to specific formulation of the material was demanded but only to be found different when some boats had issues and Hunter made good on many more than most manufacturers long after the warranty ran out.

Jackdaw · Aug 2, 2016

APC was a BASF Luran-S skin over a foam core injected between the skin and the a thin fiberglass inner hull. BASF has been making MANY formulations of LURAN-S for years; indeed the vast majority of flexible car parts (bumpers, mirrors, body cladding) are Luran. As tier-1 supplier to the automotive industry, I'd find it hard to believe that they would change their formulations that would effect their published contract-based specs. It is possible that a unrelated (non-spec) change might have created an undesirable interaction with the APC formulation that BASF (or Hunter for that matter) would not have known about. FYI here is the spec sheet.

http://www8.basf.us//PLASTICSWEB/displayanyfile?id=0901a5e180005b42

Dennis Kitchen · Aug 3, 2016

Jackdaw said:
I'd find it hard to believe that they would change their formulations that would effect their published contract-based specs. It is possible that a unrelated (non-spec) change might have created an undesirable interaction with the APC formulation that BASF (or Hunter for that matter) would not have known about. FYI here is the spec sheet.

http://www8.basf.us//PLASTICSWEB/displayanyfile?id=0901a5e180005b42

The chances are good that a lower level employee with a cavalier or "get er done" attitude made a substitution without upper management approval. Through the years and in many fields I have seen these personality types de-rail the best intentions of the product/service provider. Remember the Gulf oil spill? Just put it on, it'll be fine, nothing ever goes wrong anyway, we dont't have time and money to screw with it........

Dennis

Jackdaw · Aug 3, 2016

Dennis Kitchen said:
The chances are good that a lower level employee with a cavalier or "get er done" attitude made a substitution without upper management approval. Through the years and in many fields

Possibly. But BASF is a huge multi-national chemical provider, selling billions of dollars of contractually-correct products to huge companies. The likelihood of someone going 'cowboy' and making a swap without a change order is highly unlikely.

More likely is that the APC process effected the Luran in ways that Hunter did not know or understand or anticipate. Who do you think has more chemist and engineers on staff; BASF or Hunter?

They really don't know what happened. That's why they can't tell what hulls might be effected.

kloudie1 · Aug 3, 2016

in the Anarchist Forum, there was a guy posting that the early ones were a Dow (?) product that is similar but not identical to the Luran.. Apparently, even some of the Dow formulated ones cracked as well..