More compounding gelcoat novice questions

[Brian S]

MaineSail's tutorial suggests being very wary of miracle products, which are primarily silicone oils. That's why he recommends the products that he does. Another website, www.fiberglassics.com has a gelcoat restoration article, and it recommends the Starbrite Polish with PTFE, and then Collinite on top of that. I used that tutorial on my old Harpoon 4.6. I do not think I got as good results as I have gotten with MaineSail's tutorial. Using Fiberglassic's advice, I used primarily 3M products, with buffer materials that weren't correct (I think. Maine says 3M products are good.) Maine's article does a good job of explaining what you're trying to accomplish, and why it can take 4 progressive steps to get good results that last longer.

As for miracle products, Poliglow and Newglass II are not silicone oils. They are UV stabilized acrylic formulations. There are plenty of raves and rants about the products on the interwebs and this site, with minimal Google-fu required to find. Most people with poor results report yellowing, and material shedding off in strips. Others rave and are pleased as punch. Still others have found no-wax floor products which they feel give equivalent results at fractions of the price. Your boat, your choice.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

One tip I can pass on. I had nasty stains, discoloration and waterline stain that resisted just about everything I tried. Finally tried some powdered Barkeepers Friend on a damp rag. Stains wiped away with no effort and dicernable abrasion. It was probably the oxalic acid that did the trick but it's about $20 a can less than the only "marine" product that worked. The only problem was that I had to do the entire hull with the stuff after creating several "clean spots". It only took about 30 minutes. I followed up with almost two days effort with 3M compound/finishing material with a mild wool pad on my Makita. That part was exhausting!

 

[Gunni]

Thanks again.

Have you reconditioned well oxidized gelcoat with wet sanding and Ultra Cutting Creme, i.e. without the coarser compounding step and, if so, what grit did you go up to?

Thanks also re the diesel problem. No wax yet so that works fine.

I only sand scratches and oxidation that cannot be removed by Presta Gelcoat Compound (very little). Start with 600, then 800,1000,1200 back to a quick compound, and then on to the Ultra Cutting Creme (which does a better job of removing sanding swirls than compound, oddly). Been doing this for years, so for the most part I just wash, compound the ugly stuff, and then finish with Ultra Cutting Creme for a mirror finish. 2 coats of Collinite carnuba paste

 

[forbin]

... so far I think I've spent about 21 hours on it including the wet sanding phase and, assuming that each step including the polishing goes at about the same rate I estimate that I have about 27 more to go!

It definitely takes a while! Had I been doing it all myself I would have been close to 20 hours total. I have a 33 foot sailboat. I did mist more frequently when I was using the compounding pad but I found that with the polishing pad I rarely needed to, it stayed slightly damp with a spray of water every four or so sections.

 

[forbin]

This year, I'm trying Starbrite marine polish with PTFE (2 coats) with a top coat of Collinite. I know that sounds excessive, but it's an experiment on uv protection.

I emailed Starbrite to get some more info on the polish. The representative that responded said you can expect to get 2-4 months of life out of a coat of polish and that can be extended by using their 'Boat Guard' which from what I can tell just boosts the layer of polymers as they wear. I don't see a lot of difference between using the polish (wipe on/wipe off) vs the Boat Guard (spray on/wipe off) so I may just do the polish more frequently. The dark hull will reduce the life of a coat of polish but not by much. I'm also going to do a better job cleaning the hull after being out in salt water, I think that's probably just compounding the problem.

 

[Brian S]

One tip I can pass on. I had nasty stains, discoloration and waterline stain that resisted just about everything I tried. Finally tried some powdered Barkeepers Friend on a damp rag. Stains wiped away with no effort and dicernable abrasion. It was probably the oxalic acid that did the trick but it's about $20 a can less than the only "marine" product that worked. The only problem was that I had to do the entire hull with the stuff after creating several "clean spots". It only took about 30 minutes. I followed up with almost two days effort with 3M compound/finishing material with a mild wool pad on my Makita. That part was exhausting!

C&L, Barkeeper's Friend has oxalic acid in it. You can find Savogran oxalic acid crystals in the paint section of good hardware stores (think I got mine from Ace) for a lot less than Barkeeper's Friend. Or try MaryKate On and Off, which is probably more expensive, 'cos it comes from marine stores. Same thing, oxalic acid. The oxalic acid is like magic on tannin waterline stains.

 

[JerryA]

Just spent Saturday & Sunday doing this. Looks great now, but boy was it work.

JerryA

 

[tmjb]

Thanks to all for your invaluable input.

 

[DSqr]

Thanks for starting this thread. You've asked the questions that I was also puzzling about. I just finished the On and Off treatment on my Hunter 376 and my legs are killing me. I had to reset my scaffolding (2 folding extension ladders and 2 2x6 planks) 10 times to get around the boat. The rub rail is about 12' above the ground and my planks are about 5' above ground and I have about 8' of horizontal work room.
I was wondering if it would make sense to do all of the steps from wet sand to polish in a single area, before I move the scaffolding. I think that I'd work in 8' x 2.5' sections, first completing the upper strip and then dropping the planks several levels so that I could do the lower strip without having to kneel. If I cover the complete boat one step at a time, I've got 30 more scaffold re-sets instead of 10.
Any advise from you who have gone down this path?

 

[tmjb]

Glad to hear that you're benefiting from the discussion too. That's what this great site is all about.

I've thought about that for the same reasons of course. However, tempting as it is, I decided not to in favor of uniformity of application of the various steps and avoiding potential conflict between them e.g. wet sanding the edge of an area that has been fine compounded (Ultra Creme).

I certainly think the waxing step has to be done separately.

In addition I find that I can only do 3 to 4 hours with the buffer in one go before I need a good rest - generally at least overnight. This may of course improve, but for now at least that gives me plenty of time to move my work platform.

I think finding a stable and adjustable enough platform that is as portable as possible is probably the way to go.

 

[DSqr]

Thanks, I agree with your approach. I'm trying to cram the process into a few weekends and my 68 year old body that sits behind a desk is not happy with me.

 

[tmjb]

I'm a little younger, but not much, and I totally hear you! Good luck.

 

[Maine Sail]

FWIW I don't generally use scaffolding because I find it slow, awkward and never at the right height.. I use a 10' step ladder with the rungs facing the boat. I walk up it backwards, can lean into it with my back, and can move up and down to what ever height I need on the fly. I can do about a 3.5' swath from toe rail to waterline. When you are done that swath simply move it over a few feet, it takes seconds. Bye moving up and down the ladder you keep the buffer at chest height which makes it much less tiring.. Once you get used to backward ladder climbing you'll find it much faster and easier as well as less tiring.

I also strap my tool belt around it for spray bottle, rags and compound and I have a hang hook for my buffer.

 

[tmjb]

On top of all your great advice and guidance for which I, amongst so many others, thank you, this I thank you for even more. So simple but so effective. What a difference! I'm finally on the last leg of compounding and at last am seeing the light, but using a ladder like this is so helpful in that regard. It makes it so much more feasible to get a stable position in which to be able to apply the right amount of pressure at the right angle to make the compounding in particular work. I know I've said it above, but I can't thank you enough. A breakthrough for me.

 

[Gunni]

Buffed, waxed, and ready to roll!

 

[tmjb]

Unfortunately I don't have the time to get to that level of perfection this season. Looks fantastic! Great job.

Hopefully I can resurrect the same level of enthusiasm and energy for this next year and get somewhere close to that!

 

[Solstice]

An additional suggestion--once you get through all the work to make your gelcoat sparkle, your Spring will go much easier if you take the time to give the hull a coat of Collinite in the Fall before you put the boat away. If you regularly wash your boat during the season, you usually only need a strong boat soap wash with a spot cleaning with Collinite cleaner, then a quick coat before covering.
I know that's the last thing people want to do at the end of the season, but it makes Spring prep soooo much easier. Once you get the gelcoat in like new condition, it really helps preserve all your hard work.
In my yard, I usually get strange looks when they see me waxing in the Fall, but I'm way ahead of the game this time of year....

 

[tmjb]

Good to know. Thanks. I have seen that once or twice.

Do you wax again in The Spring?

 

[DSqr]

Thanks for the suggestion, but that's the way that I did it with my 33.5. My 376 has exceeded the range of my step ladder. Fortunately some friends have offered to loan me a rolling scaffold that will at least give me a broader reach than the 2x6s that I was working on last week.
Thanks again for your guidance on this process. I'm trying to turn this dock o minimum into a real sailing vessel.

 

[forbin]

Here's some before and after shots from my earlier post as another example. First pic is before, second is after one pass with the compound pad, third is the final result. It was 1-2 passes with compounding pad and Ultra Cutting Creme, one pass with polishing pad and Ultra Cutting Creme, and two hand applied coats of Starbrite Marine Polish with PTEF. I did it at the dock so my knees and back took more of a hit than my arms and shoulders!

Dunno if it looks as good as Gunni's but anyway...