isn't there a reason you don't set out across the gulf with the wind coming in any direction with the word north in it?
Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama crossi
- Thread starter dohcdelsol93
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You seem to have an issue with freedom of speech my friend. Post on an open forum feel free to ignore what I post or ignore me. I am being respectful, but at he sme time voicing my opinion and will continue to do so. If that doesnt floatyour boat , I am sorry. How's the Stones song go. "You can't always get what you want, but if you try you sometimes, you may get what you need"
Please try and stop freedom of speech here, that may work at home, but doesn't fly with real adults. Sorry the advice you seem to get fom some does match your expectations and note I am not alone in my thinking.
Carry on grasshopper. Darwin will prevail.
I've been reading this thread and keeping my mouth shut (for once) (till now). The odd thing about the Original Poster is that while belittling everyone for wasting his time with replies he clearly doesn't want, he's wasting his time ranting about those replies. His time would be better spent ignoring what he doesn't want to read and asking for more interaction from the ones who tell him what he wants to know.
As much as I can't stand seeing participants questioning why someone would ask a question, I really hate seeing a question-asker belittle the question-answerer. Even though he made it clear from the very start he would do just that.
As much as I can't stand seeing participants questioning why someone would ask a question, I really hate seeing a question-asker belittle the question-answerer. Even though he made it clear from the very start he would do just that.
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
To the OP - for SURE many sailors have made major passages in small boats, some smaller than the Catalina 22. But here is the difference. They were ready for it. Many years of experience had them asking a totally different set of questions that you are. They might ask a group about average daily water consumption, and if the existing tankage would be enough, or if a watermaker would upset the power budget. That's a question that tells me the person has a well sorted plan and boat, and is working on the details. It's a level of question that frankly you are no where near asking. Just because they did if does not automaticly make it safe for you. Its about experence. And you can't gain years of needed experience on a sailing forum. 60-odd posts, over half in this thread, and you insult seasoned sailors with decades of sailing when they simply state the obvious based on your post; you are out of your depth.
PS - you don't own this thread.
To the OP - for SURE many sailors have made major passages in small boats, some smaller than the Catalina 22. But here is the difference. They were ready for it. Many years of experience had them asking a totally different set of questions that you are. They might ask a group about average daily water consumption, and if the existing tankage would be enough, or if a watermaker would upset the power budget. That's a question that tells me the person has a well sorted plan and boat, and is working on the details. It's a level of question that frankly you are no where near asking. Just because they did if does not automaticly make it safe for you. Its about experence. And you can't gain years of needed experience on a sailing forum. 60-odd posts, over half in this thread, and you insult seasoned sailors with decades of sailing when they simply state the obvious based on your post; you are out of your depth.
PS - you don't own this thread.
Aw, give it up guys. It's obvious that the dealings are with an incredibly infantile personality type, and no amount of sane reasoning will penetrate the polar opposite. I know that you've seen those tv shows where some lower 100 I.Q. range is jumping a bicycle over a helicopter, or some-such.
It reminds me of the adage: Don't wrestle with a pig. You're, (we), are all getting muddy as hell, and the pig loves it..
It reminds me of the adage: Don't wrestle with a pig. You're, (we), are all getting muddy as hell, and the pig loves it..
It did occur to me that he loves raging on and on at us. I was married to someone like that. Couldn't be happy unless she was miserable.
I'd like 3-4 gallons of water per person per day between ports. I have a power generator for running the water maker. Hand pumping is also a power friendly option. I have no tanks in this boat as the first post states. I want to fit the largest water tank I can fit without adding too much weigh/ taking too much space. I like the water bladder suggested option under the v berth. 20 gallons would be ideal.
Again looking for opinions of what other Catalina owners have done with their boats.
If you don't have any positive opinions to add about mods then please stop filling up this thread
When we had our C22, we carried plastic jugs of a gallon or two each, never even considered a bladder tank, and this was for four day long weekends. With a bladder tank you'd need a fill and a vent line, plus a pump, and bingo, there goes your energy budget. You're unnecessarily complicating things. Get a spray tank at Home Depot for showers, oh yeah, you are planning on showers, right? Or maybe a solar shower, too.
Please, please, please, stop complaining about answers you don't like. It's annoying, and you're not helping yourself in getting opinions IN ANSWER to your questions.
There's a little saying the Coast Guard has when they stop folks from setting out on voyages they don't think are wise: "Manifestly unsafe..." If you're ONLY going to the Bahamas, maybe. Any further would be very unwise.
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
I sail nearly daily. I live on the lake. My v21 is docked less than 30 ft from my living room. I spend more time than most on my boat however I need to do little if any in the way of storage other than drinks and snacks because of my location. If I wanna sleep on the boat the shower is just an hour away at the most.
As for sailing the islands I have zero experience. As for "roughing " it I have been taking my son to location along the Appalachian trail since he was 6 months old. He hiked shining rock from black balsam at 3. We enjoy camping trips hours away from running water phones or electricity. I will be applying my knowledge of using maps and GPS to find our way through winding hiking and game trails to that of reading marine charts.
Watching the weather is the only hard part about sailing across the stream. As stared before unless conditions are perfect we wont be heading out. This isn't much.more than a camping trip in a boat. With the proper supplies it's going to be a very fun trip. I know ill probably have the smallest boat in the Bahamas.unless I find a group of sailors to go across with. I'm hoping to find some via the internet to make the crossing with. The biggest issue is the Catalina is going to be slow. If I had the storage space I'd much rather take the venture. It's much lighter nearly the same sail area.
I've found a Honda 9.8 HP long shaft ill be going to look at this week. The owner doesn't know if it has a stator or not for charging.
Is the Honda outboard like the Honda small engine where a stator can be added with just a stator and new flywheel? ___
I sail nearly daily. I live on the lake. My v21 is docked less than 30 ft from my living room. I spend more time than most on my boat however I need to do little if any in the way of storage other than drinks and snacks because of my location. If I wanna sleep on the boat the shower is just an hour away at the most.
As for sailing the islands I have zero experience. As for "roughing " it I have been taking my son to location along the Appalachian trail since he was 6 months old. He hiked shining rock from black balsam at 3. We enjoy camping trips hours away from running water phones or electricity. I will be applying my knowledge of using maps and GPS to find our way through winding hiking and game trails to that of reading marine charts.
Watching the weather is the only hard part about sailing across the stream. As stared before unless conditions are perfect we wont be heading out. This isn't much.more than a camping trip in a boat. With the proper supplies it's going to be a very fun trip. I know ill probably have the smallest boat in the Bahamas.unless I find a group of sailors to go across with. I'm hoping to find some via the internet to make the crossing with. The biggest issue is the Catalina is going to be slow. If I had the storage space I'd much rather take the venture. It's much lighter nearly the same sail area.
I've found a Honda 9.8 HP long shaft ill be going to look at this week. The owner doesn't know if it has a stator or not for charging.
Is the Honda outboard like the Honda small engine where a stator can be added with just a stator and new flywheel? ___
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
If you have the year and model you can find the parts here: http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2002/parts.html
If you have the year and model you can find the parts here: http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2002/parts.html
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
What is the CG authority is a situation like this? If they boarded the boat at random and found an overloaded and incapable boat with a minor child aboard, and learned the destination, could they remove the child?
What is the CG authority is a situation like this? If they boarded the boat at random and found an overloaded and incapable boat with a minor child aboard, and learned the destination, could they remove the child?
The USCG has more autonomous authority than any other US government agency. It can board any US boat, and any boat in US waters, at any time and for any reason. If in the sole judgment of the commanding officer the enterprise is ill conceived, they can declare a 'manifestly unsafe voyage' and stop you right there. You come on board the USCG vessel, and its on you to arrange something for your boat, which is left adrift.
Within the limited confines of acceptability set forth by the original poster and coming from a former C-22 owner I have one, no, make it two suggestions: build up the hull sides about 2 feet higher because when you load all the stuff aboard you're going to need on the extended planned trip you'll have compromised the designed freeboard considerably and put the boat at risk of getting pooped in a swell. Overloaded is overloaded regardless of whether it's people, stores/spares or a combination. Secondly, at the sacrifice of precious space inside you should consider adding sufficient positive flotation, something you should be intimately familiar with on your Venture. Don't forget to add the weight of stores and spares when calculating the correct volume of flotation. Not having enough is the same as not having any.
There's an old rule of thumb that estimates the typical weight of stuff on board for liveaboards is 1500# per person, all inclusive. With only two people on board you'll quickly approach an equal amount of additional weight as the boat itself.
Now you can ask the moderator to delete this post too although I specifically made suggestions to modify a C-22 as you demanded but I don't expect you'll accept.
Truth is, the only thing you want to hear is what you want to hear. Dissenting opinions are not welcome and you said as much at the start. In my opinion the best modification that can be made is in your judgment and attitude.
edit:
One more modification - replace your pintles and gudgeons with much stronger ones. Mine broke on a crossing from Dana Point to Catalina (40NM) in moderate conditions. Instant crisis and I'm not one to start crying for the Coast Guard to come rescue my sorry @$$ unless there's an injury or risk of worse. It's not fair to them to run around collecting weekend sailors on vacation. In the case of my ill fated Catalina crossing, I had plenty of sea room, no lee shore and the hull was intact. I made it back to port on my own with an oar for a jury rigged rudder and an Evinrude Fisherman 6 for propulsion. Took me several hours.
There's an old rule of thumb that estimates the typical weight of stuff on board for liveaboards is 1500# per person, all inclusive. With only two people on board you'll quickly approach an equal amount of additional weight as the boat itself.
Now you can ask the moderator to delete this post too although I specifically made suggestions to modify a C-22 as you demanded but I don't expect you'll accept.
Truth is, the only thing you want to hear is what you want to hear. Dissenting opinions are not welcome and you said as much at the start. In my opinion the best modification that can be made is in your judgment and attitude.
edit:
One more modification - replace your pintles and gudgeons with much stronger ones. Mine broke on a crossing from Dana Point to Catalina (40NM) in moderate conditions. Instant crisis and I'm not one to start crying for the Coast Guard to come rescue my sorry @$$ unless there's an injury or risk of worse. It's not fair to them to run around collecting weekend sailors on vacation. In the case of my ill fated Catalina crossing, I had plenty of sea room, no lee shore and the hull was intact. I made it back to port on my own with an oar for a jury rigged rudder and an Evinrude Fisherman 6 for propulsion. Took me several hours.
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Sorry everybody, I just gotta do this...
What are the most common last 4 words an idiot says?
"HEY EVERYBODY, WATCH THIS!"
Hahahaha!
(I know, the joke really uses another word for idiot, but I don't want insult anyone except idiots.)
Andrew
What are the most common last 4 words an idiot says?
"HEY EVERYBODY, WATCH THIS!"
Hahahaha!
(I know, the joke really uses another word for idiot, but I don't want insult anyone except idiots.)
Andrew
Truly, the man makes a good point, as they all have. Your lake sailing experience, unless the name of the lake is Huron, Superior, Michigan, Ontario, or Erie.... doesn't prepare you for making a dash across the Gulfstream... "Bumpy" will be the least of your problems.
You've gotten lots of good upgrade advice... Maybe a wise person would validate and consider the other advice too? Plus, will you let your wife and child read these posts and have a vote on the adventure afterward?
Just sayin'...
Andrew
You've gotten lots of good upgrade advice... Maybe a wise person would validate and consider the other advice too? Plus, will you let your wife and child read these posts and have a vote on the adventure afterward?
Just sayin'...
Andrew
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
This thread has a little of everything. Some good advice, lots of drama, with little bit of crazy threw in. Actually pretty entertaining. I can't even call myself a sailer own a cat22 can't even sail it yet! I have done lots of reading. Several threads where people have taken a cat22 to Bahamas or catalina island. Haven't seen anything where someone has crossed the gulf. I really like the post on 3 things to think about when sailing. Type of boat for intended use, experience of the crew, and the amount of risk you are willing to accept. Watched shows where guys jump off cliffs wearing some type of bird suit. No way in hell you get me to do that, to each his own. No idea why I posted, bored I guess.
This thread has a little of everything. Some good advice, lots of drama, with little bit of crazy threw in. Actually pretty entertaining. I can't even call myself a sailer own a cat22 can't even sail it yet! I have done lots of reading. Several threads where people have taken a cat22 to Bahamas or catalina island. Haven't seen anything where someone has crossed the gulf. I really like the post on 3 things to think about when sailing. Type of boat for intended use, experience of the crew, and the amount of risk you are willing to accept. Watched shows where guys jump off cliffs wearing some type of bird suit. No way in hell you get me to do that, to each his own. No idea why I posted, bored I guess.
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
Wow, what a thread!
To the original poster; you might google Dave and Jaja Martin's adventures in their Cal 25 if you want to know what it takes to upgrade a small, light coastal boat to cross oceans and sail offshore. The short version is they gutted the hull, added layers of glass, substantial stringers, oversize rigging, etc....honestly, that sounds like a nightmare in a Catalina 22. Even if you do all the work yourself, seriously think about the expense to redesign your boat. In the end, you'd still have a C-22 that has been seriously compromised on so many levels.
Personally, based on 45 years of sailing, building and restoring boats, I'd choose another boat for such an adventure. To invest the time and money to properly prepare a C-22 for serious offshore and extended coastal cruising just does not make sense.
I recently purchased a Catalina 22 for all the opposite reasons after years of larger and more complicated boats. There are 100's of good reasons to sail a Catalina 22 the way it is designed to sail. The C-22 is small enough to trailer to destinations, is light enough to handle, sail, and rig easily for well planned trips in the bays and lakes where I live, parts are readily available and cheap. Offshore is not used in the same sentence as Catalina 22.
If you are serious about going to the Bahamas and beyond, just sell the C-22 now before you start chopping, strengthening, and redesigning a great little boat. Use the money to get a better platform to start with. You'll save months/years of work, and probably money.
Unless you are just trying to prove that a C-22 can do the trip, there are so many other boat projects that make more sense. Speaking in generalities, try finding a Pearson Triton or some similar vintage boat with more waterline and displacement to carry supplies, a thicker hull and more substantial rig, a boat that more importantly can safely carry you and your family in open water. There are plenty of boats begging to be rebuilt and they range from free and are no more expensive than a used C-22, and are better suited for such an ambitious adventure.
Wow, what a thread!
To the original poster; you might google Dave and Jaja Martin's adventures in their Cal 25 if you want to know what it takes to upgrade a small, light coastal boat to cross oceans and sail offshore. The short version is they gutted the hull, added layers of glass, substantial stringers, oversize rigging, etc....honestly, that sounds like a nightmare in a Catalina 22. Even if you do all the work yourself, seriously think about the expense to redesign your boat. In the end, you'd still have a C-22 that has been seriously compromised on so many levels.
Personally, based on 45 years of sailing, building and restoring boats, I'd choose another boat for such an adventure. To invest the time and money to properly prepare a C-22 for serious offshore and extended coastal cruising just does not make sense.
I recently purchased a Catalina 22 for all the opposite reasons after years of larger and more complicated boats. There are 100's of good reasons to sail a Catalina 22 the way it is designed to sail. The C-22 is small enough to trailer to destinations, is light enough to handle, sail, and rig easily for well planned trips in the bays and lakes where I live, parts are readily available and cheap. Offshore is not used in the same sentence as Catalina 22.
If you are serious about going to the Bahamas and beyond, just sell the C-22 now before you start chopping, strengthening, and redesigning a great little boat. Use the money to get a better platform to start with. You'll save months/years of work, and probably money.
Unless you are just trying to prove that a C-22 can do the trip, there are so many other boat projects that make more sense. Speaking in generalities, try finding a Pearson Triton or some similar vintage boat with more waterline and displacement to carry supplies, a thicker hull and more substantial rig, a boat that more importantly can safely carry you and your family in open water. There are plenty of boats begging to be rebuilt and they range from free and are no more expensive than a used C-22, and are better suited for such an ambitious adventure.
Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro
Mr. Patterson has it right, who's the fool?
couple of links for each perspective
http://www.microcruising.com/
http://www.darwinawards.com/
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy"
Mr. Patterson has it right, who's the fool?
couple of links for each perspective
http://www.microcruising.com/
http://www.darwinawards.com/
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy"
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