Winch placement
- Thread starter Guystapo
- Start date
How much room do you have? Is there enough space for the winch, the winch handle's turning, and a cleat for the sheet to run to? How many hands do you need to steer and trim at the same time?
Check/ask here, if it's been done, they will know: Catalina 34 International Association
As many as 6 winches used to be common on racers and all cruising boats had 4. Two of the cockpit winches were added by a PO and I was glad they did (I think they were a manufacturer option, based on the non-skid pattern). My last boat had 2 on the mast and 4 in the cockpit. My try has 2 on the cabin roof and 2 in the cockpit. Now, at the boat show, just two and LOTS of clutches is the new normal for even very large cruising boats. I don't understand it. And they can be in very awkward places.
I think the OP's idea has merit, but I'm just following because I am not familiar with the boat. Yes, of course you will still use the autohelm, but it will save a lot of dancing and you will be able to release quickly. For operations like furling, I imagine you will loop the sheet around the winch to remain back tension while you go forward to haul the furling line, though obviously, it could be led aft too.
Interesting. Do read all the stuff on backing plates; one of my PO winches pulled out because they used only bolting washers and no plate. I removed both and fixed it properly.
I think the OP's idea has merit, but I'm just following because I am not familiar with the boat. Yes, of course you will still use the autohelm, but it will save a lot of dancing and you will be able to release quickly. For operations like furling, I imagine you will loop the sheet around the winch to remain back tension while you go forward to haul the furling line, though obviously, it could be led aft too.
Interesting. Do read all the stuff on backing plates; one of my PO winches pulled out because they used only bolting washers and no plate. I removed both and fixed it properly.
I have a different boat, so I cannot comment on mounting specifics, but on Tally Ho, my primaries are bit farther aft on my coaming, and I can reach them to crank on the winch, or let a sheet loose for a tack, without getting in front of the wheel…. And that makes single-handing easier and more enjoyable for me.
here ate a few shots that give you an idea on placement relative to my helm…
first, an overall view that shows how far back it is placed (but note, still slightly forward of my wheel.
Ignore the old guy….my FIL on a sail last year. Lent him my dry fit shirt because he is worried about cancer and was wearing his jacket on a90 F day)… but notice where the winch is,aced, and I am shooting this picture standing behind the wheel. I can lean over and crank the winch or let the sheet go for a tack.
This last one again shows proximity to the helm…just slightly forward of the wheel.
i have upgraded winches since this last shot was taken….notice the larger winch in the middle picture.
Good luck with the upgrade.
Greg
here ate a few shots that give you an idea on placement relative to my helm…
first, an overall view that shows how far back it is placed (but note, still slightly forward of my wheel.
Ignore the old guy….my FIL on a sail last year. Lent him my dry fit shirt because he is worried about cancer and was wearing his jacket on a90 F day)… but notice where the winch is,aced, and I am shooting this picture standing behind the wheel. I can lean over and crank the winch or let the sheet go for a tack.
This last one again shows proximity to the helm…just slightly forward of the wheel.
i have upgraded winches since this last shot was taken….notice the larger winch in the middle picture.
Good luck with the upgrade.
Greg
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,288
Locating additional winches is often a good step in making the boat easier to manage.
You might also consider stearing the boat from in front of the helm (middle of the cockpit). Once you get th ehangh of it you will find you don't always have to be "behind the wheel".
Tacking I move in front of the helm and manage the genoa on the winch, while solo sailing. Taking the process slow, so that the timing can make trimming easier. This is not a tacking dual type of tack. It is cruising. And certainly the AP can be a great assistant.
When adding additional winches consider thequestions in post #2. Additionally, the lead of your sheets needs to be considered. For winches to work properly, you need to have the line to the winch at the recommended angle in order to reduce the occurance of overrides. This may mean adding a fairlead between the jib/genoa turning block and the winch.
You might also consider stearing the boat from in front of the helm (middle of the cockpit). Once you get th ehangh of it you will find you don't always have to be "behind the wheel".
Tacking I move in front of the helm and manage the genoa on the winch, while solo sailing. Taking the process slow, so that the timing can make trimming easier. This is not a tacking dual type of tack. It is cruising. And certainly the AP can be a great assistant.
When adding additional winches consider thequestions in post #2. Additionally, the lead of your sheets needs to be considered. For winches to work properly, you need to have the line to the winch at the recommended angle in order to reduce the occurance of overrides. This may mean adding a fairlead between the jib/genoa turning block and the winch.
That is correct ..after looking the angle me be slightly off and need an additional block...right now its not a priority but thanks for the input
Everything is a compromise, including the position of the winches. If the set of primaries are set far enough back to be convenient for the helmsman, then they are too far back to be positioned well for crew! That's what I have noticed. I see no reason why adding a pair of winches where you want them is a bad idea. I'd be interested to know how that works out for you. I think you will need turning blocks.
I'm curious, your 34 looks like an older model with the narrow cockpit. Are the winches further forward than the later models? My dock neighbor's 34 (a more recent model) seems to have the primary winches set further back where they are convenient from the helm (if I remember correctly).
My winches are forward in the cockpit, where they are in a good position for crew, but not for the helm. I have a set of new winches that I haven't mounted yet. My intention is to put this secondary set back by the helm where it is useful for a spinnaker, just as you are intending to do.
I'm curious, your 34 looks like an older model with the narrow cockpit. Are the winches further forward than the later models? My dock neighbor's 34 (a more recent model) seems to have the primary winches set further back where they are convenient from the helm (if I remember correctly).
My winches are forward in the cockpit, where they are in a good position for crew, but not for the helm. I have a set of new winches that I haven't mounted yet. My intention is to put this secondary set back by the helm where it is useful for a spinnaker, just as you are intending to do.
JSsailem had a good point. You don't need to be behind the wheel.
On my last two boats (one tiller one wheel) I would tack from well in front of the tiller or beside the wheel. It might no be the best position for long turns at the helm, but it should be fine for a few moments.
Try that first. When You have crew the current location is better. You don't want to ruin that. For example, I could move the winches on my current boat, but they are PERFECT when I have crew. Anywhere else would be worse.
On my last two boats (one tiller one wheel) I would tack from well in front of the tiller or beside the wheel. It might no be the best position for long turns at the helm, but it should be fine for a few moments.
Try that first. When You have crew the current location is better. You don't want to ruin that. For example, I could move the winches on my current boat, but they are PERFECT when I have crew. Anywhere else would be worse.
If you have reached the (design consideration) point of finding new places for winches, this is a great opportunity to correct a common factory install mistake. On lots of boats, both oriented towards active sailing or more toward casual use, the winches are mounted so that you have to lean way over to put effort into the handle. This could have been addressed when they made the deck mold, but designers shy away from any complication in the mold that increased labor cost in the layup.
Esthetics played a part also. Our particular design looked really sleek and racy with with winches mounted on the slightly-cambered deck surface. I am tall and still had to lean out a ways to put enough push into the handle. I finally copied some other sailors and put plinths under each winch that also changed the mount angle (14 degrees in our case) to make the winch top level. This makes sailing the boat easier for crew of any height. I moulded out these "risers" for all four winches at the same time. I have some pix in my blog; let me know if you want a link.
Happy winching!
Esthetics played a part also. Our particular design looked really sleek and racy with with winches mounted on the slightly-cambered deck surface. I am tall and still had to lean out a ways to put enough push into the handle. I finally copied some other sailors and put plinths under each winch that also changed the mount angle (14 degrees in our case) to make the winch top level. This makes sailing the boat easier for crew of any height. I moulded out these "risers" for all four winches at the same time. I have some pix in my blog; let me know if you want a link.
Happy winching!
Thanks for the input ..my goal was top leave the forward winches for when crew was available but also have further back for me which is 90% of the time.
There is plenty of room and and I can even engage the autopilot ..I was just trying to make it easier ..