Raymarine ST4000+ MkII Rudder Reference

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Derek Rowell

What's the price of rudder sensor?

I've looked all over the Raymarine site, can't see it listed as an accessory anywhere. And what's inside the rudder position transducer? Is it just a potentiometer? Is the output simply a voltage that depends on position? If it's not too expensive I might buy one, otherwise if it's easy I'll have a shot at building my own. Derek
 
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Allen

To Derek:

Derek, It's Raymarine part number M81105 . As for the cost, they list at $285 but I've seen them online for about $215. When I complained to the raymarine rep at the Boston Boat Show about my autopilot performance, he gave me one for free. It wouldn't surprise me if they've received a lot of complaints about this unit & are giving these away to help fix the problem. Give them a call. I agree that this unit should work well out of the box, but the Raymarine rep sent me one for free, overnight, when I was offering to pay for it. That makes them ok in my book. I'll report back with my results after the unit is in place. Good luck! --Allen
 
Fred Ficarra

Fred Ficarra

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Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Wow! Sure glad I chose a 6000.

I also opted for the separate tiller. No rudder sensor needed. Oh, and no complaints. (H34) Oh, and no wear to the pedestal system. The pilot always drives the rudder post directly. (that also means that we have a backup steering system) After our rebuild, the steering showed not one worn part. So, if you keep your boat for a few years, the cost might be less than it seems. Works for me.
 
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Derek Rowell

Allen, at that price...

... I'll buy two and keep one as a spare ;) Thats more than 1/3 of what I paid for the whole thing with a remote!
 
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Derek Rowell

Major rip-off?

Aha, just as I thought! I posted a question on rec.boats.electronics to see if anybody knew what is inside the rudder sensor. The answer came back that it is simply a 5k ohm potentiometer! Not bad for $285 - eveb a high quality one would cost about $2. I've now got a spring project. Look out Radio Shack - here I come :) I'll keep you posted. I need to go down to the boat to look at how I might mount it. I think I'll add a little bit of electronics to allow calibration. If it works I'll make the plans available. Derek
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
22,782
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
ST 4000 (Dan's reply)

Dan Yup, I understand your point. Even more interesting though after you read the posts after ours! [or after hours?!?] I replaced my old ST3000 with a new ST3000 because of all that I had read here and elsewhere about the 4000. Plus I didn't have to change the ring on the wheel, just slapped the new motor and control unit in and off we went. The new 3000 has a "swinging" compass inside, and Raymarine advised that it is supposed to be that way because it has to "wobble" to keep the heading. I have it mounted on our starboard coaming about even with the wheel, so I can use it easily either before or aft of the wheel. It seems to have the power to handle our C34, much more than all of the horror stories we've heard about the ST4000. Hope all of you find a good way to get 'em working. Have a great season. Stu PS - the spell checker's working just fine :)
 
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Andy

What about new purchases of the ST4000?

I have a new H33 coming in about eight weeks. I wonder if the rudder transducer will be a standard part of new st4000 installations given all the feedback going on here? I'll have to check with my dealer...
 
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Derek Rowell (Pearson 422, Destiny)

Andy, I would doubt it...

... since it is not a standard part of the autopilot as purchased. Despite all of the interest in this thread, the jury is still out as to whether you really do need the rudder reference. In the ST4000+ manual Raymarine states that you don't NEED it unless you have hydraulic steering, or there is slop in your cable drive. From a theoretical point of view, the more information you feed back, the more potential you have for improving the performance. Whether Raymarine takes full advantage of that information is an open question, especially given the other limitations such as the size of the motor etc. In my case, I think the first thing to do is relocate the compass sensor to a low position in the center of the boat. I'm pretty confident that will make a significant difference when the boat is bouncing around. I'll look at the rudder reference after that. Enjoy your new boat! Derek
 
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Allen Schweitzer

Overall Value

As for the overall value, I still think the ST4000+ is an excellent value. I'm in it for $799 @ sailnet + an easy installation. As for the ST6000's...I see in the West Marine catalog that those are over $2k. Even with the $218 upgrade, I'm still paying 1/2 the price. I'm sure the 6000's have more capability (ability to hold a better course, bigger boat, etc.) but, if I can just get a straighter course when on a run or in following seas, I'll have everything I need for WAY less. Heck, with the extra $1k I can get new canvas, or speed & wind instruments, etc. As for building it yourself, I'm all for that if you have the ability to do that. Me? NO WAY! With my luck I'd be solo sailing in a blow 1/2 way home from Provincetown and the thing would short out. Let us know how it works out! If what you say is true (that you could build one for under $5) then Raymarine really should have included this to begin with and charged me an extra $10, if they had to. I'm not sure it's a simple a set up as you think, though...my rudder reference has 4 wires that feed into the unit. I would imagine a simple device as you describe would only have 2 wires. But what do I know!!! Thanks to everyone for the responses!! I should splash on May 8...I'll let you know how it goes! Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull# 632
 
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Dave Winiker

Raymarine 4000MK2

My recently self-installed 4000MK2 in our Hunter 31 won't hold heading for more than a few seconds whether under power or sail. IMHO the fluxgate compass may have a built-in dampening problem. I haven't "tweeked it" yet per the instruction manual but from the previous comments on this subject it sounds like upping the rudder response level may solve the problem. I've checked the Raymarine Customer Service web site and that didn't provide much help. However I'm not giving up on it until I've tried everything the manual recommends. It seems that with so many of us experiencing the same problem Raymarine would consider coming up with a fix. My old Navico system worked very well until Isabel put it out of service plus I wanted a system which would interface with my GPS.
 
Rick D

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,140
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Geesh, Lots of 4000 Issues

I (self) installed one on my Vision. I installed the compass on the starboard bulkhead low. It tracked fine for nine years and (about) 500 hours. The head unit was repaired under warranty and a new software update. I had the belt adjusted once. I did use one of the more aggressive settings on the control giving faster response. I found the lower-level response rate gave more course swing than I preferred, even tho it used more juice. I'd buy one again. I do think the compass location is very important; it needs to be as low and on the centerline as possible. And, you have to play with the sensitivity adjustment to get it to your preference. It worked very well for me, even is some pretty big and sloppy seas. Rick D.
 
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Allen

For what it's worth...

Hey Guys, Just a quick head's up: Someone is selling a rudder reference indicator on ebay. Click on the related link if you wanted to check it out. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31283&item=2470914359 --Allen
 
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