Looking at buying a C22..

CloudDiver · Mar 24, 2015

15 hp is way overkill. Most of us use 5 or 6 hp motors and that is plenty. There are a few who still sport an 8 or 9.9hp.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the Merc small motors are still manufactured by Tohatsu anyway. I believe you can add a charging kit to the 5hp.

I wish you had a link to the other boat so we could all compare notes, but if the previous one you posted is closer and turns out to have a pop-top it looks like a great choice.

LeewardRail said:
More questions:

The linked boat has a Merc 5hp 4 stroke
The other boat I'm looking at has a Merc 15hp 2 stroke.

Is that 5hp a bit small ?
What kinda power is needed to get these boats up to hull speed reasonably well ?

The 15hp seems overkill, but it likely has the alternator, and only needs the merc charging kit, which is a benefit when camping.

CloudDiver · Mar 24, 2015

Oh Dude! Go with Stormwatch! That's a MUCH better boat, its a Mk II (post 1986) so it has many upgrades over the pre 1985 models. Obviously it has the pop-up with the tent enclosure in good shape and you will want that. It has CDI furler and newer sails, the interior design is much improved over the older boats too. Also, there are many upgrades to the hardware post 1986 that you would end up having to buy later anyway.
Don't worry too much about the single axle. A tandem is def more stable (you know this), but think once you get it home you'll only be making short trips right? The long drive to get it will be a pain but once that is done you are in the clear. That looks like a late model trailer, maybe newer than the boat but is should have brake flanges on it. If not, nothing a small MIG welder on a 110V genny can't fix.

That 2 stroke Merc is worth some $$$ even used, its a newer 2012 so I imagine you could get at least $1200 for it? Nada values for 2012 Merc 15HP 4 strokes are around $2K used, I can't seem to find values for 2 strokes. A new Tohastsu 6HP sail-pro (with alternator) is $1450, free shipping.
Stormwatch! You don't even have to change the name!

LeewardRail said:
Didn't realize that somthing that small would have a charge kit.
I'd prefer a 4 stroke anyhow. No mixing, Less pollution. And no lake restrictions.

Ask and ye shall find.

I found the boat through someone else, but I did a quick search and the boat is also listed on kijiji.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/st-catharines/stormwatch-22-catalina-w-trailer/1043209606

Doug4bass · Mar 24, 2015

My 1990 C-22 came with a factory Ideal trailer , single axle. Never had a problem ("issue"

with the weight. And I wouldnt worry too much about the brakes....I doubt the hydraulic surge brakes on mine worked half of the time.....couldnt tell the difference. I vote for the later boat.....many improvements .. Unless you are a hard core C-22 racer.

CloudDiver · Mar 25, 2015

I think you made the right choice with the newer boat. I read through many of the upgrades listed in the link you posted above and compared to my boat which is a 1982, there is so much added value. Also, there are several upgrades to hardware which are not in that list. You'll be saving $$$ in the long run by not having to purchase and install those upgrades from Catalina Direct.

For the trailer, if you bargain shop I doubt you will spend $1000 on the 2nd axle. I got my galvanized axles from a shop in Louisiana for $149 each (80 inches flange to flange I believe). They are on ebay, just search galvanized boat trailer axle... I doubt you really need galvanized, so a painted axle will be cheaper. My wheels and tires came from Recstuff.com They ship out wheel/tire combos mounted and balanced, ready to go. Best prices I could find anywhere of aluminum wheels w/tires. I got a matching set of 4 (free shipping) for about $450. If you go with painted or galvanized rims it could be much less. etrailer.com is also a great source for general parts like hubs, brakes, etc... U-bolts is where you get screwed at any retail place (West Marine charges $12 for just one!). sturdybuiltonline.com out of Florida, best prices anywhere on galv U bolts, $5 to $7 each including washers/nuts.... way better than $12 each!

I'm willing to bet you could just order your second axle w/ brake flanges, brakes, wheels/tires and hubs and assemble them at home and put all in your truck. When you get there just swap out the complete axle and plumb the brakes and you are good to go with no welding. Then deal with setting up the second axle mounts and springs when you are home with your own welding gear. I'll give you all the measurements off my tandem axle set up if you like. My trailer tows like butter...

CloudDiver · Mar 25, 2015

BTW, I have a bunch, I mean like 8 or 12 extra galvanized U bolts from Sturdybuilt. I accidentally ordered the wrong size and never returned them. If you are interested I'll sell them cheap, just have to check measurements and make sure they would work.

watercolors II · Mar 25, 2015

New style over old, more indepth.

The new style which is 1986 and newer is the way to go if your going to stay overnight and use the cabin quite a bit when on a sailing trip. The added changes are for using the cabin over the older style of hull.

First the new style, starting from bow to stern, has an anchor locker built into the bow, plenty of room for two anchors, chain and over 200 feet of rode with a drain out the bow for wet gear. I keep the rode for the second anchor, which I normally use at the stern, in a cockpit lazarette near the stern.

The front of the cabin has been extended at a greater sloping angle with the forward opening hatch in this cabin roof where it will give better ventilation than the old placement flush on the foredeck. The old style will work better for sail changes during racing than the new placement but, the extra v-berth headroom is better for camping.

The vinyl cover over the pop top attaches with snaps all around the outside edge of the cabin roof which gives a large shelf on three side of the pop top to store clothing or bedding for easy access while anchored. This cover extends down over the companion way with a two way zipper for a door, you do not use the crib boards with the pop top enclosure.

The sliding galley of the old style has changed to a permanent setup next to the v-berth in which there is a permanent sink on the port side with a counter top area and a built in waste paper container setup under the counter plus additional space for storage. A five gallon jerry can water tank sets in a special cut out under the v-berth cushions with a hand pump at the sink. On the starboard side is a place for a two burner stove and a very deep drawer under this stove.

The table settee is on the portside and looks shorter than the old style but, the back cushion for the back bench seat has a strong wooden backing and a special support and slot to slide this back cushion under the port side cockpit bench to give you over 6 feet of sleeping accommodations. Under both settee benches is storage. The floor under the table is level on the new style where the old had a step-over keel trunk you have to deal with. The starboard quarter berth where the galley slid now has a lift lid under the cushion for full storage under this quarter berth.

The two small shelfs on each side of the cabin are now gone in the new styling!

The main step down into the cabin from the cockpit is now a 48 quart cooler and the areas under the cockpit benches is now accessible from inside the cabin only. The starboard area has a cushion that extends 75 percent of the way back to the stern for sleeping children with storage underneath this cushion and the port bench is open under with a divider back 24 inches from the cabin settee seat to keep small storage stuff more organized.
In this area under the port cockpit bench seat only accessible from inside the cabin I have stored an inflatable 8 foot dingy, pop-top enclosure, cockpit table, 3 sails, cockpit awning, tool box, sheets and other small sailing items.

At the stern the new style has a, sealed from the cabin and storage area, fuel tank storage area on the port side, The fuel line comes out on the floor near the stern and feeds through a scupper hole in the stern to the outboard on the portside. On the starboard side at the stern is a deep storage area under the bench seat where one 12 volt battery is located and room for anchors, rodes, mooring lines, fenders, water buckets, cleaning equipment and supplies and extra room for small items needed for the outside of the boat. 
At the stern is a new setup on the traveler so that it is adjustable although it is still short.

The new style may feature extra winches on the cabin top with internal halyards leading back to the cockpit.

The greatest improvement over the old style in the cockpit is that the floor slope is now towards the stern and the drains are now through the stern above the waterline with no grates to become plugged with debris to dam up water in the cockpit.

Hull speed is 5.9 knots. I use a 4 hp 2 stroke that pushes the hull in calm water at 4.3 knots and much less into the wind or waves, but it’s a sailboat, with the sails up and the motor running at 1/3 it will go 5.5 knots on a beat and hull speed on a broad run in med air.

You are going to trailer this boat, do not let a furler be the deal breaker, the extra work to handle a furler and set the mast every time is a pain until you learn how to do it and even then it takes extra time and people to help set the mast with furler.
My personal feelings of 23 years on a Cat 22 boat, if trailered all the time is that hanked sails is much easier to rig and sails better with a 150, 100 and a 60 percent storm sail. With this setup the Catalina 22 will handle any weather or conditions.
I have sailed large boats with furlers and they are great because of the size of the sails that are used on large boats, but when rolled up over half way the boat sails like crap and when you have a problem with a furler it’s going to happen when the conditions are the worst.
When you think it’s time to change to a smaller sail it’s already to late!
These fellows will tell you how easy it is to setup a furler when trailering but, what they are not telling you is how many times and how long it has taken them to think it’s easy.

Stu Jackson · Mar 25, 2015

That was a tremendous description of the newer boats.

However, we built the famous plywood fill board and spent many, many nights on board without ever using the V berth.

The older boats were just fine for multiple overnighting.

We sure enjoyed ours.

The pop top is a must. We never had an enclosure on our C22, but did later on our C25.

Gene Neill · Mar 26, 2015

WOW, that was well written! I agree that this info - all the differences between original design, new design, MkII and Sport - would be extremely helpful to new folks if posted as a sticky.

The only thing I can possibly think to add is that (on my boat at least) the lifeline posts on the new design are now located further outboard, and angled outboard as well, effectively making the "sidewalk" up to the bow much wider.

Watercolors! said:
The new style which is 1986 and newer is the way to go if your going to stay overnight and use the cabin quite a bit when on a sailing trip. The added changes are for using the cabin over the older style of hull.

First the new style, starting from bow to stern, has an anchor locker built into the bow, plenty of room for two anchors, chain and over 200 feet of rode with a drain out the bow for wet gear. I keep the rode for the second anchor, which I normally use at the stern, in a cockpit lazarette near the stern.

The front of the cabin has been extended at a greater sloping angle with the forward opening hatch in this cabin roof where it will give better ventilation than the old placement flush on the foredeck. The old style will work better for sail changes during racing than the new placement but, the extra v-berth headroom is better for camping.

The vinyl cover over the pop top attaches with snaps all around the outside edge of the cabin roof which gives a large shelf on three side of the pop top to store clothing or bedding for easy access while anchored. This cover extends down over the companion way with a two way zipper for a door, you do not use the crib boards with the pop top enclosure.

The sliding galley of the old style has changed to a permanent setup next to the v-berth in which there is a permanent sink on the port side with a counter top area and a built in waste paper container setup under the counter plus additional space for storage. A five gallon jerry can water tank sets in a special cut out under the v-berth cushions with a hand pump at the sink. On the starboard side is a place for a two burner stove and a very deep drawer under this stove.

The table settee is on the portside and looks shorter than the old style but, the back cushion for the back bench seat has a strong wooden backing and a special support and slot to slide this back cushion under the port side cockpit bench to give you over 6 feet of sleeping accommodations. Under both settee benches is storage. The floor under the table is level on the new style where the old had a step-over keel trunk you have to deal with. The starboard quarter berth where the galley slid now has a lift lid under the cushion for full storage under this quarter berth.

The two small shelfs on each side of the cabin are now gone in the new styling!

The main step down into the cabin from the cockpit is now a 48 quart cooler and the areas under the cockpit benches is now accessible from inside the cabin only. The starboard area has a cushion that extends 75 percent of the way back to the stern for sleeping children with storage underneath this cushion and the port bench is open under with a divider back 24 inches from the cabin settee seat to keep small storage stuff more organized.
In this area under the port cockpit bench seat only accessible from inside the cabin I have stored an inflatable 8 foot dingy, pop-top enclosure, cockpit table, 3 sails, cockpit awning, tool box, sheets and other small sailing items.

At the stern the new style has a, sealed from the cabin and storage area, fuel tank storage area on the port side, The fuel line comes out on the floor near the stern and feeds through a scupper hole in the stern to the outboard on the portside. On the starboard side at the stern is a deep storage area under the bench seat where one 12 volt battery is located and room for anchors, rodes, mooring lines, fenders, water buckets, cleaning equipment and supplies and extra room for small items needed for the outside of the boat. 
At the stern is a new setup on the traveler so that it is adjustable although it is still short.

The new style may feature extra winches on the cabin top with internal halyards leading back to the cockpit.

The greatest improvement over the old style in the cockpit is that the floor slope is now towards the stern and the drains are now through the stern above the waterline with no grates to become plugged with debris to dam up water in the cockpit.

Hull speed is 5.9 knots. I use a 4 hp 2 stroke that pushes the hull in calm water at 4.3 knots and much less into the wind or waves, but it’s a sailboat, with the sails up and the motor running at 1/3 it will go 5.5 knots on a beat and hull speed on a broad run in med air.

You are going to trailer this boat, do not let a furler be the deal breaker, the extra work to handle a furler and set the mast every time is a pain until you learn how to do it and even then it takes extra time and people to help set the mast with furler.
My personal feelings of 23 years on a Cat 22 boat, if trailered all the time is that hanked sails is much easier to rig and sails better with a 150, 100 and a 60 percent storm sail. With this setup the Catalina 22 will handle any weather or conditions.
I have sailed large boats with furlers and they are great because of the size of the sails that are used on large boats, but when rolled up over half way the boat sails like crap and when you have a problem with a furler it’s going to happen when the conditions are the worst.
When you think it’s time to change to a smaller sail it’s already to late!
These fellows will tell you how easy it is to setup a furler when trailering but, what they are not telling you is how many times and how long it has taken them to think it’s easy.

Gene Neill · Mar 26, 2015

Watercolors! said:
The fuel line ... feeds through a scupper hole in the stern ...

How, how, how have I never figured that out??? I've always run the fuel line up and over the transom, where it is always cumbersome, and always in the way, and I've always hated it. I am SUCH an idiot.

CloudDiver · Mar 26, 2015

While reading through this post many times, as I agree that the Mk II has so many great upgrades, I had to ask myself 'Why didn't I hold out for a Mk II to come on the market when I was shopping????'... Suddenly this morning on my drive to work the light bulb suddenly appeared above my grape; Oh yeah! The Mk II has a wider beam. One of my buying criteria for a small sailboat was that I needed to be able to park it in the long bay of my garage for storage and or maintenance. As it is I barley have just less than 2 inches of clearance on either side as the rub-rail at the beam clears the garage door. The Mk II would for sure be too wide. I couldn't go with a wing keel either, it would be too tall on the trailer to clear the door as well.

watercolors II · Mar 26, 2015

Other changes over the years!

See attached photo from the history of the Catalina 22 on the overall dimensions.

If the boat is trailered then the swing keel is the only way.

Barnacle_Bob · Mar 28, 2015

Gene Neill said:
How, how, how have I never figured that out??? I've always run the fuel line up and over the transom, where it is always cumbersome, and always in the way, and I've always hated it. I am SUCH an idiot.

Gene you idiot!!

Kidding aside, I've sailed a 1980 for several years and just purchased a 1987 "new design" - mostly for the better cabin arrangement ... We often sail as a family - me, my wife, and out two daughters. I would have never thought to run the fuel line through the scupper! Dandy piece of info, Jerry (Watercolors).

Looking at buying a C22..

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