Fuse or Breakers?

[BAD ORCA]

I would like to put my navigation lights, deck lights, chartplotter, wheel pilot and a couple other miscellaneous items on switches near the helm. Currently they are all on the main distribution panel inside the boat. It makes more sense to me to have them near the helm and i'd like to reduce the amount of items on the main distribution panel.

Currently most of them (exception wheel pilot) are on circuit breakers. Is there any reason why i couldnt just connect them all to individual SPST rocker switches and run those rocker switches to a Blue Seas ATO/ATC fuse block? I already have the fuse block which im not using and a spare bus bar i could mount close by for all the ground wires. I also have a ton of spare ATC fuses. Paneltronics has the waterproof rocker switches. It would be cheaper to do this than buying a small weatherproof distribution panel and would take up a lot less space, which is important.

Is there any reason why using fuses would be a bad idea vs a circuit breaker?

 

[jssailem]

Makes sense to me.
Fuses are one time use items. Circuit breakers serve two purposes, switch and line protection. If popped, can be reset more easily.

By custom more than function (my opinion) when we go aboard we turn on all that will be needed for the cruise/day or night sail. Then we go on deck and sail. When complete we turn them off. If during use they pop, then we reset and move forward. If they pop a second time we investigate the cause.

Reinstalling a fuse generally takes more time than resetting a breaker.

It is you boat and you control how you want to structure the operations. If you like the fuse method and it gets you out sailing, I say go for it.

 

[BAD ORCA]

Ok perfect. I figured there would be no problem , but just wanted to make sure there was no safety issue im overlooking. Luckily the fuse box is easy access so if i do blow a fuse it would be pretty quick and easy to replace. I figured i would run the positive feed to the fuse box back to the distribution panel and put that circuit behind a breaker. That way i can de-power it when away from the boat or if somethig goes wrong and i need to cut power to it.

 

[JoeWhite]

If I was going to place switches in the cockpit, I would install small toggle switches in the cockpit and use 24 guage nickle plated twisted wires to energize the coil of sealed relays that are located inside the circuit breaker panel that provide power to various devices. This will reduce the cost and voltage drop due to added length of wire. The coil current is usually 20 milli amp.

 

[jviss]

24 guage nickle plated twisted wires

Is there such a thing as nickle [sic] plated twisted wire?

I think the O.P.'s plan is fine.

 

[JoeWhite]

Yes, I guess I misspoke, I meant stranded wire, that is nickle plated so that it does not rust.
What do you mean by "[sic]"?

 

[Davidasailor26]

Yes, I guess I misspoke, I meant stranded wire, that is nickle plated so that it does not rust.
What do you mean by "[sic]"?

Marine wire is generally tinned to prevent corrosion of the copper, not nickel plated. Since the underlying material is copper and not iron it would otherwise oxidize, but not technically rust.

[sic] is a grammatical construct used to mean that
there was a spelling error in your statement (nickle vs nickel) that was being quoted. It’s the formal way of preserving the integrity of your statement verbatim while making it clear the spelling error was in the original and not an error in transcribing the quote.

The approach you suggest for remote switching is a concept that’s gaining popularity now, but rather than analog signals and mechanical relays systems are being built to operate digitally. Digital buses can be run throughout a boat to allow remote switching of devices from touchscreens, tactile buttons, and networked electronics. There are advantages to that, but in the OP’s case it’s probably overkill.

 

[jviss]

Just so, and tinned means solder plated, which these days I guess now is all tin!

 

[JoeWhite]

And I used this method to create a wired remote switch to operate the windlass from the cockpit.
David, thanks for explaining [sic] and the proper spelling of nickel.

 

[jviss]

And I used this method to create a wired remote switch to operate the windlass from the cockpit.

Aren't the windlass operating switches already low current circuits, since they operate the windlass relays?

 

[jeepbluetj]

Ok perfect. I figured there would be no problem , but just wanted to make sure there was no safety issue im overlooking. Luckily the fuse box is easy access so if i do blow a fuse it would be pretty quick and easy to replace. I figured i would run the positive feed to the fuse box back to the distribution panel and put that circuit behind a breaker. That way i can de-power it when away from the boat or if somethig goes wrong and i need to cut power to it.

This. I was going to say make sure you current protect the feed to your switch panel. Sure, it's convenient to turn it off, but it's more important to avoid a fire in the event of an unintentional short. You can also share fuses/breakers if desired - the overcurrent protection device should be sized to the wire. So if all your lighting is wired with 14g wire, and all of it on draws less than 15A, you can have 1 15A fuse/breaker for all the lights.

 

[jviss]

This. I was going to say make sure you current protect the feed to your switch panel. Sure, it's convenient to turn it off, but it's more important to avoid a fire in the event of an unintentional short. You can also share fuses/breakers if desired - the overcurrent protection device should be sized to the wire. So if all your lighting is wired with 14g wire, and all of it on draws less than 15A, you can have 1 15A fuse/breaker for all the lights.

The OP said:

i would run the positive feed to the fuse box back to the distribution panel and put that circuit behind a breaker.

so I think he said he's doing what you suggest.

 

[JoeWhite]

Aren't the windlass operating switches already low current circuits, since they operate the windlass relays?

I am not sure how your windlass switches are wired, but in my case the foot switches are located at the bow and are probably over 100AMP contacts. In order to operate them remotely I installed 85 AMP (that is all that is required) contact relays and operate them from the cockpit using small sealed toggle switch on-off-on, forward-off-reverse. You can visit my website and album to see them.

Sail La Vie | 1999 Catalina 36 MK II

mei1970.org

 

[jviss]

I am not sure how your windlass switches are wired, but in my case the foot switches are located at the bow and are probably over 100AMP contacts. In order to operate them remotely I installed 85 AMP (that is all that is required) contact relays and operate them from the cockpit using small sealed toggle switch on-off-on, forward-off-reverse.

Oh, I see. I could be wrong, but thought my deck windlass switches were low current and connected to the reversing relay.

 

[jssailem]

Joe
Not sure of your windlass system.
My Lewmar has a "Controller" box and a "Contactor" box.
The Controller box is a relay. It uses a 3 amp fuse to the switches.
The Contactor is the heavy lift switch and it uses a 90A to a 150A circuit breaker depending on the size of the motor installed.

Check your manufacturers wiring diagram to properly protect your boat.

 

[jviss]

Joe
Not sure of your windlass system.
My Lewmar has a "Controller" box and a "Contactor" box.
The Controller box is a relay. It uses a 3 amp fuse to the switches.
The Contactor is the heavy lift switch and it uses a 90A to a 150A circuit breaker depending on the size of the motor installed.

Check your manufacturers wiring diagram to properly protect your boat.

Yes, exactly so, that's what I have:

 

[BAD ORCA]

This. I was going to say make sure you current protect the feed to your switch panel. Sure, it's convenient to turn it off, but it's more important to avoid a fire in the event of an unintentional short. You can also share fuses/breakers if desired - the overcurrent protection device should be sized to the wire. So if all your lighting is wired with 14g wire, and all of it on draws less than 15A, you can have 1 15A fuse/breaker for all the lights.

Good to know, thank you. I ordered (12) switches but if i can keep the panel on the smaller size with fewer switches, it becomes a smaller hole i have to cut into wall of the cockpit. Bow and stern light will certainly be on a single switch/fuse.

 

[jviss]

I would like to put my navigation lights, deck lights, chartplotter, wheel pilot and a couple other miscellaneous items on switches near the helm.

Please note that the devices you mention have varying requirements regarding voltage drop (3% or 10%), and draw dramatically different amounts of current. The wire sizes here will be important, and the current capacity of the feed to your fuse panel will have to be much larger than 15A if you expect to run several of these devices at the same time.

Nav lights and chart plotter are probably 3% drop requirement loads, while the others are probably fine at 10%. This will tell you the size wire you're need from the fuse panel (your sub-panel) to the load. See this:
Marine Wire Size and Ampacity
Then, you'll have to sum the current for all of the simultaneously loads, and size the wire and breaker from the main panel to the sub-panel to handle this. Could be 20, 30A, who knows?

Then, you'll have to make sure you account for the drop in the sub-panel feed and the drop in the load feed to stay inside your 3% or 10% requirement.

Get round trip run distances for each load branch to the sub-panel.
Get the round trip distance from the sub-panel to the main breaker panel.
Assign each load either a 3% drop or 10% drop constraint.
Fiddle with wire size until all of the loads are within the drop constraint from main breaker to load, with all of the loads you expect to simultaneously run - I would assume "all."

You should also consider the resistance of the connections to the sub-panel and those of the fuses, as you will drop voltage across those, too.

A spreadsheet comes to mind as a handy tool for this. You can use Google Sheets, it's free.

So if all your lighting is wired with 14g wire, and all of it on draws less than 15A, you can have 1 15A fuse/breaker for all the lights.

I think you are applying residential wiring practice here: 14ga for 15A circuits. This rule doesn't work for marine applications.

 

[jeepbluetj]

...

I think you are applying residential wiring practice here: 14ga for 15A circuits. This rule doesn't work for marine applications.

Yup, meant 12g. I should know better...

 

[jviss]

Yup, meant 12g. I should know better...

Still not right. Residential is typically 12ga for 20A circuits, 14ga. for 15A circuits. But this has little or nothing to do with DC marine electrical practice.