Fin Keel sailboat stored on a boat lift: recommended?

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Freeblowing

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Nov 5, 2008
33
Oday 1971 Mariner 19 2+2 Lake Nockamixon, PA
I am thinking about buying a sailboat that is stored on a lift, and the way it’s been stored, without support under the keel, is giving me second thoughts. The boat has been setting there for about two years unused, with the mast up, and as far as I know the present owner has been storing it that way for maybe six years (when it wasn’t in the water).
The boat is solid fiberglass, has a draft of 4’, 1800 lb. of ballast, and displaces about 3800 lb. The keel is bolted on.
Do you think the keel to hull joint could crack once it is blocked properly? I’m just wondering what the worst case scenario could be.
Has anyone seen damage caused by this type of storage?
 

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finding41

finding41

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
If the keel touches the bottom when you are in the water that's bad right? Why not when on land?
 
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Ray Bowles

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Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
Freeblowing, I would think that part of your answer would be gained by closely examining the hull where it rests on the supports including the keel. Is there any deformation of the hull and has the keel to hull seam opened up any?
She is an older boat and one that was not a highly popular model but on the net you might be able to find other owners and get their opinion. O'day has had some rather severe failures of their keel attachment design and that information should also enter into your decision. A surveyor would be a good resource in this case.
Ray
 
C

Crazy Dave Condon

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Jun 8, 2004
10,064
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Before you buy, I would suggest a survey. The weight of the boat is being stored on straight boards which in essence there are only on contact point on each side of the hull. I would not worry about the keel but rather the hull where the boat sits on the straight boards as the hull could be caved in with possible damage assuming there is no keel tray holding the fixed keel.

With a fixed keel, the keel should be resting on a keel tray to be blunt. As for the boards, they should have been contoured with the hull just like you see all bunk boards on the sailboat trailers to distribute the weight of the over the hull, not on single point contacts with straight boards.

Check the hull before you buy.

crazy dave
 
F

Freeblowing

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Nov 5, 2008
33
Oday 1971 Mariner 19 2+2 Lake Nockamixon, PA
Yes, it’s a Tanzer. It’s solid fiberglass without a core. It needs a lot of cleaning up but the boat looks (and smells) like it's always been dry on the inside. which is why I am still interested.
If I don’t see any stress marks on the hull now maybe the keel to hull joint is OK, and I just have to worry about marks from resting on the boards. I would think those issues would be fixable. I might talk to the owner more and possibly get it surveyed.
This method of sailboat storage seems to be common in this part of MD.

Thanks
 
Joe

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,007
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Check me if I'm sounding stupid here......... but when the boat sits in the water, the keel isn't supported...... so what's the big deal? He's storing it out of the water because he wants to keep the bottom clean.

That said, I would me more concerned about the effects of the straps on the hull/topsides.... if they're not placed properly, per factory recomendations... the straps can distort the hull.

Have a surveyer examine it.... just think, you won't have to pay extra for an out of the water survey... heh, heh.
 
higgs

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,638
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
In the water the keel weighs less and the stress on the hull is evenly spread over the entire wetted surface. Out of the water stress is on the the area of the hull that is supported by the lift and on the keel/hull joint. I would pass on this boat. It may be fine now, but problems have a way of compounding as the years go by.
 
F

Freeblowing

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Nov 5, 2008
33
Oday 1971 Mariner 19 2+2 Lake Nockamixon, PA
I was thinking to keep the boat in the water all the time and haul it out long enough to work on the bottom, every year or so.
The question remains if the over built fiberglass hull of the Tanzer will deform because of this storage method, and also if it will develop a problem over a period of time.
I've gotten opinions from various sources on this issue and most advise me to pass on it.
As mentioned this type of sailboat storage seems to becoming more common and it represents yet another potential problem sailboat buyers have to look out for.
Thanks for your comments.
 
RobertLangdirect

RobertLangdirect

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Apr 22, 2009
342
Pearson P-31 Quantico
See my boat -- err -- see my AVITAR!

She was on the hard -- on jackstands for five years.

She WASN'T DRY on the inside -- at all. In fact, she had a foot or two of stagnant water on the inside, and slime on her cushions. But, that was in fact why I was interested in her.

I did not need to search for stress marks on the hull, because, she came with a large portion of her stern torn away by a Hurricane.


But GOOD TRADE, like your potential boat, did have something in common -- an owner that really wasn't into sailing her.


Not to be discussed here as it really is NOMB, but how much are you paying, roughly? Under 10K -- that's beer money for me. I'd look her over, carefully see if you have deformation where the boards are, give her a test sail, and pay the man for the boat.


Survey -- for beer money? I'd rather have a skanky beer than hire a taste tester. If we were talking serious money, I would look to a survey but from what I hear, buying a surveyor is at best much like buying a boat -- you don't always get what you thought you were paying for.
 
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CCHer

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Jul 7, 2010
230
Beneteau 37 Cranes Creek, VA
Interesting thread. On my creek a Bene 323 is on a lift. The owner of a Hunter 34 is having a lift installed for his boat and a friend who just traded his 36 foot powerboat which he kept on a lift for a brand new Tartan 3700 plans to modify his lift for the sailboat. Not sure what consideration they gave to supporting the keel. I know that the Bene's keel is not supported and its been on the lift a long time. Obviously not a big issue to the owner who keeps the boat in great shape. I was told that a sailboat on the hard for a while will settle when put in the water so that its a good idea to check shaft alignment. Anyway, I'd think the builder would be the best source for advice.
 
F

Freeblowing

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Nov 5, 2008
33
Oday 1971 Mariner 19 2+2 Lake Nockamixon, PA
I was interested in this boat because it is a Tanzer and can be had for cheap.
I was polling the crowd here for opinions about what to expect when the boat was blocked with support on the keel, and in a worse case scenario, would the damage be something I could fix.
I imagine I cold fix the keel to hull joint, if it cracks, but marks left from the boards it is presently reating on won't be easy to fix.
 
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tommays

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Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Back in the old days like 1981 :) boats got shipped on cradles that had hull form fitting wood parts that were in the correct place to ship the boat without dammage

BUT i have to say the boat in the pictures does not look even remotely supported correctly I
have seen plenty of sailboats placed correctly on lifts
 
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bffatcat

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Jun 8, 2004
853
Pearson 26W Marblehead
boat stored in slings my 2c

Listen to Higgs Namely about the full weight of the keel hanging with out much support being different from a keel in the water
First a tanzer was a decent well built boat in her day. Second ger a surveyor that has experience with stress of this type My guess would be stress damage depending on how long the boat was hanging. I would pass. If you do buy this boat store it on a supported cradle
or jackstands with a wedge under the keel
 
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Big Windy

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Jun 2, 2004
1,077
Several Catalinas C25/C320 USA
If Tanzer is still in business, give them a call. The advice you get here is worth what you are paying for it.
 
Manureva

Manureva

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Jan 14, 2011
243
tanzer tanzer 28 bathurst nb
tanzer are generally built like tanks, the hull is most likely an inch tick if not more, take a close look and if there is no crack under her it should be allrigth
 
Witzend

Witzend

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Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
What is the specific gravity of lead?
11340KG/m3
What is the specific gravity of water?
1000KG/m3
So the keel is pulling on the bottom of the boat less than ~10% more out of the water than in. Seems unlikely that this increase would produce any problems on a 1" solid fiberglass hull that is most certainly thicker than that at the keel joint if indeed well built.
If there is no structural damage under the supporting boards, I would think it would be a non issue that it was stored that way.
 
Witzend

Witzend

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Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
Also, the tensile strength of the keel bolts should be very high, and as long as they are bedded properly it is unlikely to cause damage hanging there. Much greater forces are being applied on the keel joint in a boat that is being tossed side to side than the static forces of it hanging by the bolts.
 
higgs

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,638
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I'll chime back in here. We NEVER store a boat on the hard w/o putting the weight on the keel. Why is a lift different?
 
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