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Would these items be deal breakers when buying a boat?

Mar 27, 2012
312
Seaward Fox Washougal WA
====================================== Black Iron is just that. Cold steel without a lot of carbon. It rusts! Many black iron tanks rust through from the outside, namely where water stands on top by leaking around the fuel fills. If the owner routinely washed and dryed the standing water, if any, from the top, you are fine. Have the surveyor check on top. If he is a veteren surveyor he will already know to do this. Grand Banks are the worst offenders and the tanks have to be cut out and replaced with a series of smaller tanks. Or remove the engines...or...as a boat yard in Snead Island, FL has been known to do...cut out the bottom of the boat and lower the tanks out and patch the holes. The sulfur in diesel reacts with a galvanized coating, so the "black iron" actually may be preferable http://www.purdue.edu/envirosoft/fuel/src/tankpipe.htm An acquaintance of mine had to replace the tanks in his Albin. Rather than remove the engine to get the tanks out, he cut the old tanks up in the boat and removed them. Then he had 4 smaller tanks made to go in the same place the original two had been and put them in himself. I think the new tanks were aluminum. The Anatasia was a Bruce Bingham design, I think originally intended for ferrocement. Somewhere I have his old, original catalog. I also met him while he and Katy Burke, his then co-designer and main squeeze were living/sailing on Sabrina, their Flicka 20. He claimed it did 7 knots, and since it was blowing like stink out in Long Island Sound, he decided to show me and a few others. We were out on a close reach I think, well heeled over, and the knotmeter read 6.8 knots. I asked him about his thoughts on ferro cement, since he had wrote an "Enclopedia of Ferro Cement Boatbuilding", a copy of which is in my personal library. He said "We don't talk about that any more." and he didn't say another word. I think he's the real thing, good designer, great at designing/drawing/illustrating any boating details you want. The Anastasia you're looking at is likely a fantastic boat, and at under $30K, I'd have a surveyor check it thoroughly, and not worry about the black iron tanks as the overall boat. If the tanks are bad, just use them as a bargaining point to get the boat at a lower price. You don't find many cruising boats that look like they're that well build and finished at that price. As for the wood mast, also have it checked. I had a wood mast break at the spreaders once, due to water intrusion. The mast was sheathed in fiberglass which prevented adequate checking the wood. I'm an engineer/boat designer (retired) and was able to redesign a mast and build it for that particular boat (a 25'er). If the mast is ok, just maintain it well and it should last a long time. Hope this helps you!
Wow! Helps, encourages, and more. Thanks!
 

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,482
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I have had two boats that were not light air boats, including my current boat. If you are not racing (obviously you aren't going to race this boat) this is not an issue. If you are making offshore passages that exceed the engine's range, that is an issue. Most of us, when cruising by day and putting in at night, will motor when the wind is light so even the light air boats end up motoring. For day sails, who cares if you ghost along at 1 knot or a half a knot?
 

RECESS

.
Dec 20, 2003
1,505
Pearson 323 . St. Mary's Georgia
Jebus 1 knot? There is a thrill factor at 7 knots, pleasure at 5 knots, 4 knots in a pinch, under 3 turn the key.
 

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,482
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Jebus 1 knot? There is a thrill factor at 7 knots, pleasure at 5 knots, 4 knots in a pinch, under 3 turn the key.
I have had some terrific day sails out on the water at a half knot.
 
Mar 9, 2011
6
Hunter 280 St Petersburg
This is a remarkably beautiful boat for the age of the vessel. However the cast iron tanks are awesome tanks, They will never deteriorate on you and will last you a lifetime of trouble free service. as far as the comment where they are brittle, as long as you don't bang it with anything too hard you will be fine. The things you really need to look at is the structural integrity of the hull, the Motor, how well it was taken care of. Hours meann nothing if a motor has been meticulously maintained it will last you many years even with 10000+ hours on it. Check the transmission. This one is the biggy. If it's been misused it could be a costly repair when you least expect it. check it for play and sea trial it. Make sure you inspect all hoses and electrical. Believe it or not plumbing and electrical on a boat is very costly to repair. especially when you need special wiring and plumbing. Check the waste water hose for seepage from the head, it may not leak but will definately give you a very smelly cabin. check your tanks for leaks, I made that mistake once and I paid the price for it. Make sure your through hulls are solid and not loose or flaking around the seal. make sure plastic through hulls are not brittle, and make sure you check your shut off valves. Ball valves tend to get stuck and will be a disaster if you need them to work in an emergency. If all is good, It's a steal I'd buy her
 
Sep 3, 2013
16
Columbia 8.7 ROCKLAND & ST. PETE
This seems like a great buy on this boat. We have been on it and the interior is gorgeous and the outside needs some work. For the price it seems like a good buy, but I am not familiar with "black iron fuel tanks" and "box section Alaskan cedar mast". Are these things to avoid? Deal breakers in any of your opinions? There is very little info on the web regarding these boats. I think there were only 9 built but seems to be positive info. Or maybe the only info was from when the owners were trying to sell theirs? Here is the boat:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Anastasia-32-Custom-2631504/Our-Docks%2C-Portland/OR/United-States#.Uy8WuRdOXIU
Hi, All the info in the ad is superficial-she looks like a sweet boat. I get the sense that you may not have much DIY experience-so I would get a survey, which I'm sure insurance will require anyway, from someone who really knows boats and can produce a to-do list. The mast and tank are not deal-breakers. The mast is built in a manner that many thousands of masts were built before aluminum extrusions-though Alaska cedar is an odd choice, considering that the near at hand and far superior Sitka spruce and aluminum masts were very commonly available. I would certainly have some one go over it. Though maybe not easy to do in this situation, a mast on horses is always much easier to inspect and, of course repair-go through the rig at the same time. The tank, painted though she may be, is more likely to corrode from the inside and is pretty hard to inspect (water settled to the bottom) and requires some research and pondering. Some are sound as the day built-others, not. Depending on location and findings, perhaps replacement costs would be a part of the deal. Fair Winds, Will
 
Oct 26, 2008
4,994
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Alaskan Yellow Cedar ...

This discussion had me curious about the wood selection for the mast. Actually, it may not be such an odd choice. The cedar is denser and the positive characteristic is that it is durable to very durable against resistance to decay. It also finishes well. By comparison, Sitka Spruce is not resistant to decay and doesn't finish particularly well. The greatest advantage that Sitka Spruce has is the strength to weight ratio. It has a greater stiffness coefficient than the cedar. However, other strength properties of cedar are superior (due probably to it's higher density).

Not surprisingly, a common uses of the Alaskan Cedar is for "boat-building". Sitka Spruce is used for masts and spars exclusively because of its superior stiffness, but probably the lack of decay resistance makes it a poor choice for other boat-building materials.

Consider that the properties of wood varies widely among all species of woods. The range is great, while the published properties are based on means testing. Products of nature will have a far greater range than manufactured products, that's for sure. The properties of any particular wooden mast may be a crap shoot anyway. A good specimen of Alaskan Cedar may have superior properties compared to a poor specimen of Sitka Spruce. It is likely that you could distinguish no difference either way.

That is where the box section construction technique comes into play. It provides the mast builder to select from the best-looking specimens and the construction technique provides superior strength compared to a solid wood mast. I'd bet that if the mast shows no sign of decay, it will perform admirably.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/alaskan-yellow-cedar/

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/sitka-spruce/

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/modulus-of-elasticity/
 
Mar 27, 2012
312
Seaward Fox Washougal WA
This discussion had me curious about the wood selection for the mast. Actually, it may not be such an odd choice. The cedar is denser and the positive characteristic is that it is durable to very durable against resistance to decay. It also finishes well. By comparison, Sitka Spruce is not resistant to decay and doesn't finish particularly well. The greatest advantage that Sitka Spruce has is the strength to weight ratio. It has a greater stiffness coefficient than the cedar. However, other strength properties of cedar are superior (due probably to it's higher density). Not surprisingly, a common uses of the Alaskan Cedar is for "boat-building". Sitka Spruce is used for masts and spars exclusively because of its superior stiffness, but probably the lack of decay resistance makes it a poor choice for other boat-building materials. Consider that the properties of wood varies widely among all species of woods. The range is great, while the published properties are based on means testing. Products of nature will have a far greater range than manufactured products, that's for sure. The properties of any particular wooden mast may be a crap shoot anyway. A good specimen of Alaskan Cedar may have superior properties compared to a poor specimen of Sitka Spruce. It is likely that you could distinguish no difference either way. That is where the box section construction technique comes into play. It provides the mast builder to select from the best-looking specimens and the construction technique provides superior strength compared to a solid wood mast. I'd bet that if the mast shows no sign of decay, it will perform admirably. http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/alaskan-yellow-cedar/ http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/sitka-spruce/ http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/modulus-of-
elasticity/
Think this boat is an option. Think I will really start inspecting after spring break and possibly pursuing her.
 
Mar 27, 2012
312
Seaward Fox Washougal WA
Update: Went to boat today and inspected the mast. It appears to be in good shape. Sails are next to new. I paid attention to the motion of the boat as I walked around on her and I noticed a lot of movement. Then I searched the fuel tanks. At first I was surprised when I noticed both tanks had big inspection ports. But then I turned on flashlight and noticed the bottom sides were very rusted. The black paint was flaking off and just lots of rust. I didn't pick at it since I have no offer on her and wanted to be respectful. They sit under a number of floor joists or braces. Looks like a lot of work and money to get them out and new ones in. Maybe cut them out and put smaller ones in. Who knows. Think I will keep looking.
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,196
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
with rusted tanks, remove tops and make fg inside so you have a fg tank... done well will last forever. unfortunately i have no old tank to use as a mold....is easier to do this with old tanks in place for molds for new fg ones.
if price is right for boat, this isnt a deal breaker...especially if you love the boat....
 
Mar 27, 2012
312
Seaward Fox Washougal WA
with rusted tanks, remove tops and make fg inside so you have a fg tank... done well will last forever. unfortunately i have no old tank to use as a mold....is easier to do this with old tanks in place for molds for new fg ones. if price is right for boat, this isnt a deal breaker...especially if you love the boat....
I do love her, but the motion doesn't feel right. I have been on a few different full keel boats (Formosa's included) and I have never noticed so much movement just from me walking around. I have received a lot of opinions from people looking at her dimensions who thought her motion rating to be unfriendly. I think at this point I agree. I step off her and she rolls back and forth. The 40 foot Valiant next to her I step off and she moves in the slip but not in a rolling motion. Not sure if it could have to do with body weight vs 32 ft vs weight vs 40 ft but it just didn't feel right. I don't ever remember feeling that much movement on my 84 Hunter 27.