Winterizing the main aft scupper on a MacGregor 26M

Nov 7, 2018
12
Beneteau 34 Kingston, Lake Ontario
I live in Ottawa, Canada where the winters are cold. I have a 2005 MacGregor 26M (with a sliding galley) and every year I try to improve my method of winterizing the aft scupper. The cockpit and aft deck drain into the outboard engine well, and there is a small scupper in the bottom of the well and the output is through the transom a little below the well and to the port side by about a foot. The connection between the well and the output is a flexible pipe that goes BELOW the level of the outlet (see photos), which means there is always standing water in it. In addition, the sink on the sliding galley goes through a long flexible tube that eventually is routed in the aft bilge before rising to a T connector just below the outlet (see photos). Any water going down the scupper from the engine well has to fill up this drain pipe to above the level of the scupper output before any will go out through the scupper!
The way I winterize this scupper at present is to plug first the scupper and blow out at the sink, then reverse, plug the sink and blow out at the scupper. Then add anti-freeze and repeat. Then plug the scupper in the engine well and immediately store the boat in it's unheated dry barn, where there will be no water accumulation in the plugged engine well. If the boat was outside with a cover over it I could imagine that over the winter there will be some accumulation of water in the engine well.
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how best to winterize this aft scupper?

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Nov 7, 2018
12
Beneteau 34 Kingston, Lake Ontario
How would that keep the water from freezing?
You are quite right. I store the boat in a marina storage shed (along with 50 other boats) that is fully weatherproof but unheated. Sometimes there is a delay in moving the boat to the storage shed after it has been winterized and I have to check the engine well to ensure there is no water build up (because I have plugged the scupper), which I remove with a syphon and sponge. If it rains it is not uncommon to overflow the engine well with the scupper plugged. One year the engine well filled up and before I got round to drain it, it froze with 4-5" of ice, and that is before winter even starts! It took a hammer and chisel plus a heat gun to clear the ice from the engine well with the control cables, electric cables and fuel line all encased in the ice.
In the middle of winter the temperature gets many degrees below freezing, even in the storage shed, and any water in the scupper line and sink drain will be totally frozen which will either burst the pipe or force the pipe off the fixtures.
I take the fresh water tank off the boat and store it at home, then drain all the fixtures and pipes that are left on the boat.
Winter is fun here in Ottawa! As I look out on the Ottawa River that I sail on (it's about 1 km wide were I live) the river traffic I see at the present time are pickup trucks, ATVs and Skidoos driving on the ice, all intermingled with ice fishing huts.
 
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Likes: Ward H
Nov 7, 2018
12
Beneteau 34 Kingston, Lake Ontario
I don’t know your boat but if you covered the entire boat, how would water get into it?
Don, I agree that covering the boat is an important part of winterizing the boat. In my case I store it in a weather tight storage shed. The other half of the winterizing is removing the standing water. The current routing of the scupper pipe has a significant portion of the pipe below the level of the outlet. By way of comparison I have a scupper in the anchor locker which has a pipe that has a continuous downward flow with no standing water and I do nothing to winterize this scupper other than ensure there is nothing blocking the hole and water runs out freely.
I had been thinking of redoing the piping in the aft scupper. First separating the sink drain from the scupper and then rerouting the scupper pipe to a new outlet that I would place a little lower in the transom than the existing outlet to give a downward flow and eliminate any standing water. In this scenario the sink drain would be the only thing going out the existing outlet and it would have a significant amount of standing water in it, but it could easily be winterized by blowing out and adding antifreeze.
My main problems with redoing the scupper output to a new outlet is I don't have much freeboard to lower the new outlet and I haven't found fixtures that would ensure a continuous downward flow with no standing water.
I was wondering if anyone with a MacGregor 26M had successfully tried this solution?
Brian
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,075
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
My lack of clarity probably isn’t helping you but if I understand correctly, two possible solutions might be:
1. Displace any water in the scupper drain line with antifreeze after which covering should preclude any water entering, or
2. install a T fitting with a valve at lowest point in drain hose and leave valve open.
 
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Likes: rgranger
May 16, 2011
555
Macgregor V-25 Charlton, MA- Trailer
I just did the same thing. If it were pitched properly this would not happen. It is also concerning that the drain is below the water line. I plan on installing a sea cock in case the line develops a leak. It would sink the boat. I do not have a barn and the aft is somewhat exposed. I had to thaw the whole thing out Sunday and then run antifreeze through the sink line and the motor well. A good three hour project. I then plugged the motor well. I plan on weighting a sacrificial can or container in the well to prevent any ice build up from possibly cracking the well itself. It would crush instead of the ice pushing out. I saw what that can do to a friends boat. Not the best set up for sure. These boats have a few surprising flaws. For now anti freeze and plugged well. The way the boat heels I don't think a sea cock on the sink side for a drain is an option. If the valve were open during a sail it would also fill the boat.
 
Nov 7, 2018
12
Beneteau 34 Kingston, Lake Ontario
My lack of clarity probably isn’t helping you but if I understand correctly, two possible solutions might be:
1. Displace any water in the scupper drain line with antifreeze after which covering should preclude any water entering, or
2. install a T fitting with a valve at lowest point in drain hose and leave valve open.
Don, Thank you for this. Your solution 1 (with the addition of plugging the scupper before covering) has been my method of winterizing since I've owned the boat. I plug the scupper because if water does get in the boat in spite of the cover, then a frozen engine well is a lot easier to deal with than frozen pipes below deck. But as Ken pointed out ice in the engine well can lead to big problems "....to prevent any ice build up from possibly cracking the well itself. .... I saw what that can do to a friends boat."
This part of the MacGregor is lacking in practical design, again Ken sums it up "Not the best set up for sure." So I've been looking to improve the setup. I think the first thing to do is separate the sink drain from the scupper, having a separate outlet for each. Under this scenario your solution 2 could be a good alternative to winterize the sink drain on it's own. Now I just have to arrange a free flowing scupper with no standing water. With temperatures of -25 Centigrade (-13 Fahrenheit) that we have been getting recently, you don't want any standing water in your boat or pipes!
Brian
 
May 16, 2011
555
Macgregor V-25 Charlton, MA- Trailer
Don, I agree that covering the boat is an important part of winterizing the boat. In my case I store it in a weather tight storage shed. The other half of the winterizing is removing the standing water. The current routing of the scupper pipe has a significant portion of the pipe below the level of the outlet. By way of comparison I have a scupper in the anchor locker which has a pipe that has a continuous downward flow with no standing water and I do nothing to winterize this scupper other than ensure there is nothing blocking the hole and water runs out freely.
I had been thinking of redoing the piping in the aft scupper. First separating the sink drain from the scupper and then rerouting the scupper pipe to a new outlet that I would place a little lower in the transom than the existing outlet to give a downward flow and eliminate any standing water. In this scenario the sink drain would be the only thing going out the existing outlet and it would have a significant amount of standing water in it, but it could easily be winterized by blowing out and adding antifreeze.
My main problems with redoing the scupper output to a new outlet is I don't have much freeboard to lower the new outlet and I haven't found fixtures that would ensure a continuous downward flow with no standing water.
I was wondering if anyone with a MacGregor 26M had successfully tried this solution?
Brian
Brian,

Note that going lower is not a good fix because the exit point is already lower than the water line. That would be good when the boat is out of the water but leaves another hole below the water line. Definitely a sea cock if you are installing. There are a lot of points on this boat that can let water in. I'm surprised. My V25 was made tight after ten years of investigating every leak. This boat is not tight by design or lack of. The steering posts are a good one. I read about a guy who beached his boat and when the tide went out the angle of the boat allowed water to come in from the posts. Filled it with a LOT of water. I could use a hand pump in most areas of my V25. Not his boat. I'm installing a bilge pump just in case.