wing on wing sailing

Udi

.
Mar 23, 2021
62
Hunter 45 ds 2010 Jaffa
Hi !
Does anybody have any info' (YouTube, any internet site) about sailing wing on wing on a hunter 45.
My main concern is off course an accidental jibe.
Thanks.
 
Oct 22, 2014
16,146
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Good morning Udi.
Wing on wing sailing is a natural way to sail down wind.

Use of a whisker pole let’s you run a course the favors the wind in the Mainsail. If you have a lot of wave activity then unless the wind is strong and you are monitoring your heading and the wind you could experience a gybe.

That is where a preventer comes in. The best rig is to tie line to the boom end. Run the line outside all shrouds and life lines to a spot near the bow. Attach a block there and run the line through the block and back along the deck to the cockpit. Pull the line to move the boom out over the water. Then pull in the Mainsheet to counter balance. The preventer will hold the boom in place.
 
Feb 14, 2014
5,716
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
On my H430 we set the Traveler to stop the boom swing.

Plus the Boom is over head of the Cockpit, so no Boom swing Head Bangs.

Also this minimizes the Main Sail rubbing the Spreaders.

The real work is the Head Sail...
Jim...
 

Udi

.
Mar 23, 2021
62
Hunter 45 ds 2010 Jaffa
Thank you all very much!
I guess the best solution is the preventer, because as far as I know till now, a whisker pole is not an option on most or maybe all Hunters due to it's uniq rigging plan.
Thanks again.:clap:
 

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,218
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
I leave a preventer rigged all season long. It consists of two lines connected about mid boom going forward to about where the shrouds are located. I do not think it is necessary to go forward beyond that. The preventer lines are slack until needed when sailing. When docked or anchored they keep the boom to one side and still. When jibing they provide a means to control the boom and keep it from swinging over fast. All you need is some line and two blocks.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: Udi
Feb 21, 2013
3,795
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
.......I guess the best solution is the preventer...........
Good plan, espeacially in swells or rough water.............OR sail on a broad reach without one.
 
Last edited:

YVRguy

.
Jan 10, 2013
466
Hunter 34 Vancouver, BC
A preventer is an obvious precaution so I won't belabour that point but here's another thought:
In many downwind or broad reach scenarios the mainsail is more of a headache than a help. Consider running before the wind with just your headsail and see how well you do. You may find yourself leaving it down more and more. This is particularly true of masthead rigs that have a lot of headsail area to make use of. The newer fractional rigs rely more on the main.
 
Jan 18, 2016
686
Catalina 387 Dana Point
I find it quite difficult to keep the jib stable without a whisker pole in the typical light SoCal winds. I know nothing about a B&R rig that would preclude a whisker pole - you need a ring on the mast and a pole. Spin halyard for a guy, as it'd be a decent sized pole for a 45'er. But maybe the mast isn't designed for pressure where the ring would mount.

You may find that running deep and gybing gives better VMG anyway. I'm guessing this because IIRC you have a B&R rig that significantly limits how far you can let the main out and it's a fractional rig with it's associated smaller headsail (the sailplan power is mainly in the main).

My 387 is faster running deep even with the large masthead genoa due to I've got no pole and swept back lowers that prevent the boom from going out as far as I would like. Bit more comfortable too. My old C-30 ran wing/wing most excellently with a pole and was pretty quick for DDW. Could get the boom almost 90 degrees to the boat. Was actually quite nice to sail that way. For anything 5+ miles downwind though I'd launch the asym.
 
  • Like
Likes: Udi
Oct 22, 2014
16,146
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Every rig is a little different and you need to accommodate the rig you have. You also need to manage the sails in the sea conditions you sail.

When I sail on the inside waters of the Pacific NW, the wave and swell are not big considerations most of the time. So the way I rig my preventer is not as critical. When sailing in the ocean or in the open water near the ocean, the way I rig my preventer becomes more of a safety factor. Just like loosing a mast, breaking a boom will put a considerable hurt in your day. Booms were not designed to be stressed in the center. It takes considerably more force to control a boom in the center. If you have a traveler controlling your boom in the center of the boom, note your mainsheet has multiple blocks along the boom to spread the forces needed to control the sail over a wide area of the boom.

Preventers tend to be single point attachments. Attaching it in the center of the boom puts significant stress on that area of the boom. Add to it the stresses of the sail and it is a recipie for a failure.

The long preventer line provides some stretch/absorption of the stress on the boom. The attachment at the end of the boom spreads the force on the boom over the length of the boom.

The issues of sailing with the boom out over the water in a large sea state puts the risk of not only a gybe but a dip of the boom in the ocean. The combination of these stresses can lead to a moment of failure at a bad time.

Sure you can get away with a mid boom preventer attached to your stanchion or life line in moderate or calm waters and mild breezes. Just be aware that as the conditions change you may need to employ other strategies to be safe.
 

JRacer

.
Aug 9, 2011
1,239
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
You might find this informative: Preventer rigging (oceancruisingclub.org)

Also the accident report on Platino that they link in quite informative.

While the specifics of the incident are not particularly relevant, the analysis, discussion and recommendations are pertinent. Lots of good information on Safety at sea and dealing with it when the SHTF. Found the details of the discussion on the jibe preventer to be quite revealing and learned quite a bit about how that equipment should and should not be rigged as well as other rigging and equipment placement issues that can decrease risk factors.
 
Jul 19, 2013
318
Pearson 31-2 Boston
On my H430 we set the Traveler to stop the boom swing.

Plus the Boom is over head of the Cockpit, so no Boom swing Head Bangs.

....
That the boom is clear of the cockpit is a nice feature of the Hunter arches, however, it's somewhat offset by the fact should an accidental jibe occur, the loops of the mainsheet swing across the cockpit instead, and my IMHO be more dangerous than the boom itself.
 
Oct 22, 2014
16,146
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
JRacer A nice document discussing the various viewpoints on preventers and rigging to minimize the events of an unplanned gybe.

As stated it is the conditions you are in that should influence the type of running rigging you exploit to move your boat and protect your crew.
 

Artey1

.
Jul 18, 2019
142
Hunter 34 Oklahoma
I leave a preventer rigged all season long. It consists of two lines connected about mid boom going forward to about where the shrouds are located. I do not think it is necessary to go forward beyond that.
There are many instances some ending in death that say otherwise to the attachment point. Preventers really should be rigged to the end of the boom and go all the way to the bow. See the attached pdf link for one example of the Platino accidental gybe that was rigged with a preventer that resulted in one's death, one man overboard, and the complete failure of the rig. It was rigged exactly the way you are explaining. http://www.mdschool.com/school store/Gybe_Accident_Report.pdf
 
  • Like
Likes: Udi

RoyS

.
Jun 3, 2012
1,218
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Artley1, that is one of the most thorough, expert, and well written reports I have ever read. I cannot find fault with any of the conclusions stated therein. The report was fair and unbiased and that is rare in itself. The report does state that the preventer is better able to handle the expected loads when connected at the bow rather than further aft. I totally agree. However, the preventer here was not the only failure as you state above. The crew was sailing on a broad reach in 6 foot confused seas, with 50 knot gusts, on autopilot, with apparently full sails deployed. The cause of this disaster was either the autopilot which caused a sudden unexpected turn or a rogue wave and, in either case, caused the full mainsail to be totally backwinded. In the resulting gybe the preventer attachment failed at the toe rail and the rest followed. The report suggested that it might have been better if the mainsail had been stowed in the conditions they were sailing under. Under those conditions, I know I would not have the mainsail deployed at all. Further, my preventer is always deployed and not rigged as needed, as was done here. Leaving a bow connected, end of boom attached preventer always deployed, both port and starboard, would be very complicated and I doubt many sailors use such a system. In the coastal conditions in which I sail I think my permanently rigged preventer system, while not perfect, is adequate and an enhancement to crew safety. Excellent report and well worth reading!
 

Udi

.
Mar 23, 2021
62
Hunter 45 ds 2010 Jaffa
Good plan, espeacially in swells or rough water.............OR sail on a broad reach without one.
Did you encountered any 45s or other hunter around those sizes with B&R rigs, using a whisker pole with the main or jib?
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,530
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
The link to report on Platino has been posted here in SBO once before. Yes, it is an excellent report, well written and very informative. I re-read parts of it to confirm my earlier opinion, which was that ultimately crew error was responsible for the disastrous event. Yes, the AP failed due a defect (leak of fluid) that was not detected. But the boat crash jibed because there was no watch sitting at the helm to take control of the yacht when the AP did finally go. If a watch crew is not quick enough, strong enough, or experienced enough to be there and take control of the helm in those conditions under that sail plan in use, then the skipper(s) should have shortened sail, period.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: jssailem