Engine

Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Hundreds of hours of towing, and everywhere from as far West as Larchmont, NY, in the Long Island Sound to as far East as Nantucket; through the canal to P-town; and many places in the Rhode Island Sound Vineyard Sound, and Buzzards Bay. Calm days, rockin' and rollin' days. We almost always tow it. I looked back once, exiting Westport, MA in big waves to see the bottom of my dinghy behind as it was pulled off the top of a wave, still upright. Never swamped, never capsized. Only 'misphap' was a couple of years ago, pounding through 5' waves at the North end of Quicks' Hole, when one of the towing bridle straps parted; my emergency line picked up the slack and it towed slightly sideways, which turned out to be smoother than before!

Seriously, all kinds of weather and waves, no problem.
Well, that's impressive.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
......................... and your handle is "pumpkinpie" ?

Once you get a lighter motor, here is a more compact mount. It's solid enough to stand on but you don't want anything too heavy sitting there at that height.


View attachment 169619
For anybody sailing with their motor on the pushpit, it isn't about the strength of everything at rest, but rather the torque from the motor on the pushpit underway, especially in snotty weather, like crossing a channel down here during Christmas winds.
 
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capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I did that on one center consol Mako with 75hp engines. It didn't radically improve speed, and doubled the maintenance, fuel consumption and noise, but as I didn't bother with counter rotating engines, it was a bear to maneuver in tight places.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Anyone have any ideas on how to do it without having to drill holes in the boat
Probably not. I have never seen a crane or davit-like lifting thing that attached to the boat without requiring at least one bracket attached to the hull or deck with screws or bolts.
anyone know the best setup on the market to mount the engine on the stern seat?
For a 15 or 20HP four-stroke (that's over 100 lb.), no; not recommended.

That said, let me ask a question: why? Why do you want to hoist the motor off the dinghy?

I confess this seems to be a fairly common practice, with motors up to about 6HO. I've never seen anyone hoist a 15HP up off a dinghy and mount it on a rail.

I also confess I don't know why people feel it is necessary to hoist any motor off a dinghy that's being towed. I can see if if you are going to deflate and roll-up a boat, or hoist a boat onto the foredeck. But I've seen people take off their 4HP outboards and then tow the dinghy. Doesn't make any sense to me. If you are towing it, leave the motor on it.

On a 38' sailboat, if you are hoisting a dinghy onto the foredeck, I can't imagine it would be big enough to carry a 15 or 20HP motor. There seems to be a problem of proportion here.
 

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
I also confess I don't know why people feel it is necessary to hoist any motor off a dinghy that's being towed. I can see if if you are going to deflate and roll-up a boat, or hoist a boat onto the foredeck. But I've seen people take off their 4HP outboards and then tow the dinghy. Doesn't make any sense to me. If you are towing it, leave the motor on it.
The warranty on our Archiles specifically states towing with the motor on voids the warranty. It's a soft bottom with a wood floor. Not sure if the same language applies to their RIB's.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I also confess I don't know why people feel it is necessary to hoist any motor off a dinghy that's being towed. I can see if if you are going to deflate and roll-up a boat, or hoist a boat onto the foredeck. But I've seen people take off their 4HP outboards and then tow the dinghy. Doesn't make any sense to me. If you are towing it, leave the motor on it.
For most, jviss obviously excluded, towing a dinghy, motor or no motor is a real non-starter. It does slow the boat to some degree depending on the weight of the dink and the cleanliness of the bottom and those who do usually have dirty dink bottoms. Should anything go wrong recovery can be very difficult to impossible in any seaway and if you don't notice when the tow line breaks, you may never find it again. and should the dink flip with the motor on, well kiss that motor goodby.
Every single day of the season at least several dinghies are lost or flip when being towed here in the Windwards. Every single day.
Our dinghy is our car; our lifeline to shore, our most expensive bit of additional ancillary equipment and I would no more tow it than park my car in a ghetto with the alarm off.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I come to this forum because I know without a doubt that there are better qualified sailers that have much more experience than I, in hopes to help educate myself better and learning from their mistakes rather than mine.
Here it is. It’s very likely a "mistake" to attempt a trip of weeks or months duration & hundreds of miles, some across open waters such as between Florida and the Bahamas, where you will need to depend on use of a dinghy and outboard that cannot readily be brought aboard and stowed/secured in some manner. Therefore, it’s a mistake IMO to have to rely on towing the thing as the "best" or only way to “carry” it. It does not mean that the loss or abandonment of the dinghy, should that occur, will shut down your cruise. You'd just have to acquire another one along the way. But I doubt it would be the same type. The size, weight, and type of your dinghy and outboard relative to the size of your yacht leaves you with few (i.e., expensive or troublesome) options of how to properly secure it aboard. Management of the situation will likely rob you enjoyment of your trip, IMHO. Dinghy issues and their solutions are discussed frequently at this forum. I have not seen posts here that much support your plan in this respect, even as it has developed, with the possible exception of jviss, who supports towing.:doh:
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
For most...towing a dinghy, motor or no motor is a real non-starter.
You guys are funny, or maybe just parochial. Towing a dinghy with a motor is quite common here in New England; everything from 9' inflatables with 5hp outboards behind 27' sailboats, to 36' center consoles towed behind 250' motor yachts. Sounds and bays like Vineyard Sound, Buzzards Bay, and "open water" like Massachusetts Bay. Yea, we never have waves or heavy seas or storms here, that's all just legend and myth. :)

Let me be more specific. If you have a 36 or 38' sailboat, or even 40 or 50, and you also decide to have a 9 or 10' RIB with a 15, towing is the only sensible option.

You occasionally hear a VHF call about a lost dink; but in my experience, not even once a year.

Mine is towed with a webbing towing bridle, and the painter from an eyebolt on the bow is tied to the tow line, i.e., up past the snap that secures the bridle. The only single point of failure is the main tow line, which gets inspected ever time it's used.

I have never, ever flipped my RIB, and have never seen one flipped, or heard of one flipped, in my area.

It could very well be a regional thing, but that's the way it is up here, and has been for the last 20 years.

I, frankly, couldn't be bothered hoisting a motor, and deflating and rolling an inflatable boat for the kind of cruising I do. If I was making a crossing, certainly, I wouldn't tow; I might not even bring one. There are times I was in harbors in sloppy weather and I wouldn't have been comfortable in a non-RIB with a 4 or 5HP motor.

Suit yourself, but towing my RIB works very well for me. Maybe in Florida it doesn't, I wouldn't know.

Every single day of the season at least several dinghies are lost or flip when being towed here in the Windwards. Every single day.
Really. "Every single day." That's quite remarkable. How do you know? Are these incidents reported somewhere? VHF traffic? Or maybe there's a database of some sort? That must result in a large market for dinghy "harvesters" and a huge used dinghy market, no? The flip side is that if so many end up this way, there must be an awful lot of people who are towing dinks, and a proportionately large number who's dinghies don't flip or get lost. Make sense? What do you think the rate of lost or flipped to successful trips might be? Of course, people wouldn't be making a report, or a VHF call, or updating a database when nothing happens, so we wouldn't know.
 
Jun 14, 2010
2,081
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
I'm trying to figure out the best method to winch a 15-20 HP Engine off a dinghy and mount it on the seat rail on the stern. Anyone have any ideas on how to do it without having to drill holes in the boat and anyone know the best setup on the market to mount the engine on the stern seat?
Getting back to the OP - I think "without having to drill holes" is the non-starter.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Towing in FL in the ICW, for example, would not be a problem. Outside might not be either most of the time. But anchoring in FL is behind the barrier islands, in small harbors, bays or rivers, etc. It's not far to shore, even if there is something there to go ashore for. So there is typically no need to support the expense of a 20 kt, >200# RIB inflatable (plus 15-hp engine) package; so you don't see all that much towing there of these over sized dinghys. The sailboat inflatables are typically more around 8.5 ft instead of 10 ft, with a 4-6 hp outboard, and are ones that can be rolled up or hauled aboard to the foredeck, etc. No need for towing, therefore. At least in my observation, which is a bit dated since it's bee 20 yr since I owned a sailboat there. But that's all local stuff, close in. Going out, say crossing the GOM or the Florida Strait, or similar. That's a different story re: towing.
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
towing a dinghy...those who do usually have dirty dink bottoms.
I meant to comment on this, too. Maybe where you are. Here, using the boat mostly on weekends, and a couple of two-week cruises a year, the dinghy spends most of its time pulled up on to a dinghy dock. Nothing growing on the bottom of mine, and this is so for most folks around here.
 
Jun 14, 2010
2,081
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
IMHO - if you want to tow that's fine. Towing slows the boat and IMHO brings some legitimate risks, but it's your dinghy and your choice, and apparently it works for @jviss . It might not work as well for others.
I have passed a boat towing a dinghy that flipped, and on another occasion I passed one towing a dinghy and that dinghy was towing its gas tank by its hose which was still attached to the dinghy motor (the tank was not tied down, apparently). In both cases the boats were unable to do anything about recovering it in the boisterous conditions.
Another choice is a smaller, lighter motor; give up planing the dinghy, hoist the dinghy on deck and better sailing performance.
Davits also have trade-offs - more convenience, more weight aft and crap on the back, and more windage, and higher weight reduces righting moment. Trade-offs.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Nothing growing on the bottom of mine, and this is so for most folks around here.
The bottom does not have to be dirty to slow you down pulling a 150# to >200# dink + engine, etc. It can cost as much as a knot even under power. Under power you MIGHT be able to throttle up some to compensate. Not under sail. You’re stuck with it all day unless the wind picks up some; maybe. On a 60 n.mi. run, the difference between VMG of 6, instead of 7, kt is about 1 and a half hr. For 600 n.mi., the cost is an extra day’s run, etc.

One has to figure the “cost” in diesel-engine horse power (even if there is a generator running at times). Whenever the batteries are charging via the alternator some horse power is removed from thrust, etc. Running refrigeration?, autopilot?, radar?, navigation electronics?, charging cell phones? adds up throughout a day. In addition to that, the diesel has to push the boat and pull the dink, if under power, which will likely be a lot of the time if going down the ICW.
 
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Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
I found reading the responses to be quiet entertaining.

Here is my perspective. I probably have about 20k NM towing our dinghy. It's a 9.5 foot aluminum RIB. For most of that time we had a 9.8 hp 2-stroke Tahatsu, it is by far the most bang for the weight in motors weighing only 57 pounds. Most of the time the engine was on the rail with the home made cross bar setup shown in a previous post, cost me under $75 to make, similar to what Ralph showed. For the bridle we used a double bridle setup. One to the two D rings and one to the welded attachment on the hull. Both bridles had two points going back to Smitty. It took a little practice to get the lines spaced right and not chafing. We towed from Maine to the BVI like that. For some of the bigger crossing, we used the Dinghy Sling to get the dinghy out if the water and gain a little speed. But most of the time we towed simply because cruising with a dog means that at a minimum you are going to shore in the morning and in the evening.

While in the USVI we upgraded to a Suzuki 15 hp 4-stroke with fuel injection. This is probably the lightest 4 stroke you can get at 97 pounds. A Yamaha 2-stroke in this size is 85 pounds. We also added an arch for a large solar panel and as davits (post soon come). But we towed the dinghy with the big engine on it for probably a thousand miles. This includes in the Trades, during Christmas Winds, sometimes with seas as big as 12 feet. On several trips to St. Croix we towed the dinghy, it's only about 50 NM but almost all of it is in open water. For work I would tow up to a 16 foot RIB with a 25 hp 4-stroke with electric start and a battery. Thousands of miles doing that.

We have never once flipped our dinghy. We have never lost our dinghy. We have never had any real issues. But it did slow us, almost a knot. Like I mentioned we now have davits. This decision was based on first adding a big solar panel, second security of the dinghy from left and third getting that knot back. Yes we use the davits offshore with the engine on but that is a post for another day.

Now if I were @Pumkinpie I would look at the Dinghy Sling from Harbormen. If you poke around my blog you will see my write up. It's also in a past issue of Mainsheet. With the dingy you describe this will be a perfect fit to lift the dinghy flat against your transom and get it out of the water for longer passages without having to add any hardware.

For the motor, I would get the nylon lifting handle. You could use that with a halyard to help lift the engine off the dinghy and put it on the boat. You could even add an opening block to the boom to help with this. Something like this mounted near the aft end of the boom to hold and guide the halyard. This would turn your boom into an engine crane for maybe $50 ($200 if you had the yard install it). Just line up the spot on the boom with the spot where you will store the dinghy.

Now for engine storage, the easiest answer would be to put it in your lazarette. But that's valuable storage space for other stuff. And the engine might not fit. So if I was going to use the rail I would probably start with buying the good Edison rail mount. If I recall correctly that has an intergrated cleat on the rail, if not you could use a soft shackle right on the rail next to the bracket. Make up a block and tackle with an intergrated cam cleat (you probably have something like this for your boom vang if you don't have a rigid vang). Install a folding padeye with a decent backing plate so that you can pull the rail in the opposite direction as the engine. When you put the engine on the rail, you attach the block and tackle and pull on the line slowly until you feel it counteract the engine. You don't want to over pull. I would also take the precaution to put a real backing plate on my rail supports, not just fender washers as might be there. Another option would be to add stainless steel pole supports to do this. But that's more drilling and planning.

With the boom snatch block and padeye approach this would only require 3-4 holes in the boat and 2-4 holes in the boom (then tapping those holes).

Let me know if you need anymore details.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I found reading the responses to be quiet entertaining.
Yes they are entertaining. I used to tow almost exclusively, but I don't anymore b/c it slows me down and the dink is not secure from theft in the water? Going to sea--you could do it, but maybe it's a good idea to pull it up using slings, or davits (which is what I do now with my heavier 15-hp engine)? Nothing bad ever happened towing my own dink or an even larger, heavier RIB as a maritime professional, so you can do it too with yours even in view of the fact you've not done stuff like this before? By the way; yes, it might be a good idea to be able to lift the outboard off the dink and stow it somewhere aboard, etc? Which is the origin of this thread.

Sounds like you're making most of the same arguments about certain undesirability of towing that others have been making. Nice to have the perspective of so much experience!!
 
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