Water leaks, Islander 28 deck drains?

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Jun 3, 2010
177
Hunter 27-3 Erie
We have two pesky water leaks in the q-berth. I have been checking and tracing, it really appears to me that they are directly under the drains molded into the deck in that area and pass under the toerail. Now that the boat is out of the water I can look a little closer and it appears like a pretty rough area. I expected a smooth drain but it appears to be the hull/deck joint instead. Anyone else have the problem>
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
my islander 26 also did that. was a perry design islander i loved it
 
Oct 31, 2009
41
Islander 28 Blaine, Wa.
Our Islander 28 has the same problem and I came to the same conclusion. Basically a design flaw on an otherwise great boat. Short of pulling the toerail and recaulking the hull-deck joint, (looks like a nightmare to me) I can't figure out a way to do more than a band-aid fix using a Dremel tool to route a groove into the joint in the drain from the outside and filling it with 5200 caulk. That ought to last at least one season! Any other ideas? By the way, I found the same thing had occured on the port side in the lazarette locker. This led to a thorough examination from the inside of the entire hull/deck joint around the circumference of the boat. I found the joint to be loose and leaking in several other places. The original caulk had disintegrated in these spots and I did the best I could to tighten down the nuts to at least bring the parts closer together. The situation seemed worse at the bow and stern. In my opinion, this does not present a structural problem unless the moisture reaches someplace important like the wooden parts holding the chainplates. I discovered looking into the head locker above the sink that it had done just that. The 3/4" plywood had dry rot underneath all the nice paint. The one on the port side is covered with vinyl and I haven't had the heart to look there yet. So I'm in need of some sage advice on how to cure the hull/deck joint leaks short of pulling the toerail and starting over.
 
Jun 3, 2010
177
Hunter 27-3 Erie
What if we add a sleeve of sorts?

I was thinking that just cleaning the drains with solvent and sealing them off was the answer, but then I was thinking about all the standing water, dirt and yick that would pool along the toerail. What if........from the hull side you cleaned out the drains with a small file, cleaned the area with solvent, then made a sleeve like a flattened piece of aluminum tubing (or two) that was the width of the toerail. You could add the tubes and seal all around them from both the deck and hull. That would allow the water to drain overboard and seal off that hull to deck joint?
 
Oct 31, 2009
41
Islander 28 Blaine, Wa.
I was thinking that just cleaning the drains with solvent and sealing them off was the answer, but then I was thinking about all the standing water, dirt and yick that would pool along the toerail. What if........from the hull side you cleaned out the drains with a small file, cleaned the area with solvent, then made a sleeve like a flattened piece of aluminum tubing (or two) that was the width of the toerail. You could add the tubes and seal all around them from both the deck and hull. That would allow the water to drain overboard and seal off that hull to deck joint?
I think what you're suggesting is some sort of flange that fits into the drain below the toerail and carries water over the hull/deck joint. That's an idea worth pursuing. In salt water, aluminum is not such a good idea but S.S. could be substituted. Now then, how do we attach it to the drain without drilling holes and riveting?
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
I think what you're suggesting is some sort of flange that fits into the drain below the toerail and carries water over the hull/deck joint. That's an idea worth pursuing. In salt water, aluminum is not such a good idea but S.S. could be substituted. Now then, how do we attach it to the drain without drilling holes and riveting?
the slotted toerail on the islanders of the late 70s were of aluminum. not ss. they are slotted and water flows overboard....rebed it with butyl tape per mainesail......
 
Jun 3, 2010
177
Hunter 27-3 Erie
That isn't the problem

the toerail is fine. There are two scuppers per side molded into the deck, the toerail passes over those scuppers and they allow the water to drain off of the side decks under the toerail and overboard. The toerail itself does not leak, it does not need to be rebedded or sealed. The issue is that the scuppers are sort of "incomplete" in that they do not provide a watertight path overboard. The molded deck stops just short of the hull/decck joint under the toerail/ They do lead a path to the hull/deck joint which leaks into the q-berth.

What I am proposing is a way to put a drain pipe under a driveway so to speak. to provide a path for the water to still drain overboard but also seal off that hull/deck joint. To sleeve the scupper with either aluminum, SS or plastic tubing and to seal the areas around the tubing from both the deck and the hull.
 
Oct 31, 2009
41
Islander 28 Blaine, Wa.
Re: That isn't the problem

Thanks for explaining to zeehag why our problem is in the molded (bad pun) scupper under the toerail and not the toerail itself. I mentioned toerail bedding issues in my previous post but that is a separate and much larger problem. Unfortunately I think he is correct about the necessity to rebed. After rebuilding a couple of boats, I like to sail a lot more than I like to fix and toerail rebedding is not to be taken lightly. So I'm still hoping for the "short-cut wonder cure" that someone a lot smarter than I am has discovered to fix the leaks around the perimeter of my boat.

Back on topic, another issue with this aspect of the I-28 design is that the molded scupper forces a considerably larger gap between the bolts holding the deck to the hull. The hull/deck joint at the scupper is not secured and compressed as tightly and is more prone to flexing and thus bedding failure and subsequent leakage. My 1979 vintage sealant under the scuppers just dried up, fell out, and disappeared. How can we fix that problem? S.S. pop rivets or does more holes=more leaks? I think we are at the point where a picture or a drawing is worth a thousand words. I'm headed over to my boat in a few weeks and can post some photos after that. Or if your boat is closer.....?
 
Oct 31, 2009
41
Islander 28 Blaine, Wa.
I wish I could be shrinkwrapped for the winter. I'll send photos when I can get over the snowy Cascades to Blaine.
 
Jun 3, 2010
177
Hunter 27-3 Erie
I found the inside of those scuppers

Got down to the boat last weekend and started unzipping that headliner in the q-berth. It appears that the hull/deck joint has either 5200 or something much like 5200 holding it together. It is squished out (in), you can touch that area with no problem. The original plan I had was to patch this area fro the outside, however I am now thinking the best way may be to attack the leaks from the underside. I should be able to trim that 5200 like stuff, it is still somewhat soft and pliable. If I can trim it back far enough to the glass itself, then roto-zip (carefully) a shallow V at the joint, I should be able to fill that area with fresh 5200 fast cure.
 
Jun 3, 2010
177
Hunter 27-3 Erie
Update. The leaking areas are accessable from the q-berth

Went down to the boat this weekend, froze my butt off but it was time well spent. Both of the starboard scuppers that are leaking are accessable from below by unzipping the headliner in the q-berth. The sealing material used does not appear to have the consistency of 3M 5200, it looks more like polysulfide like BoatLife or maybe a different 3M product? It is easily trimmed back with a utility knife, even at 25*. The leaking areas are easy to identify, the black streaks are obvious. It appears to me that be trimming the sealer back and/or cleaning the area back with a dremmel tool, additinal sealer can be added. There is also a 1/4" bolt on either side of the scupper tha I plann on loosening. I'll add the new sealer then re-tighten the bolts. I imagine that the port side scuppers are accessable from the cockpit locker, but it was just too cold to investigate that.
 
Jun 3, 2010
177
Hunter 27-3 Erie
Success!!

I completed the repairs as described below. I used the dremmal to remove as much of the old sealer as I could from around the scupper. Vacuumed out the dust and wiped it down with acetone. I tightened the hull to deck bolts and then used 3M 5200 fast cure to fill it in. Two good rainstorms later that the repair works, not even a drip!
 
Oct 31, 2009
41
Islander 28 Blaine, Wa.
Re: Success!!

Thanks for the posts. We are still on the hard drying the hull prior to blister repair. Thus no pictures as promised last fall. Sorry. I came to the same conclusion that 5200 and a Dremel was the way to go. Glad to hear it worked. Unfortunately the sealer on my boat is no longer flexible. Great idea on loosening the bolts adjacent to the molded scupper. Did you try and wedge the joint apart a bit to get more 5200 in between? I wonder if I could work my way around the entire hull/deck joint loosening about 3' at a time and injecting sealer until I redid the entire perimeter of the boat. I'm resigned to the fact that this may prove to be an annual repair buts it's better than living with the leaks.
 
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