Ventilation aboard Legend 40.5 1997

[Luman]

Hello,

I am concerned about the fact that there is no constant positive ventilation inside this ship. Although there is tons of openings to vent when aboard, there is nothing when we're away. The reason I'm asking, is that the odor that strucks me every time I get inside realy discuss me. Even things that we bring back home smells for many days.

This is my first boat, so I can't compare with anything else and I didn't get any complaint of any guess yet. I just don't know what to think of this. I understand that, being over water, it is though to keep moisture to a low level but I have installed a humidity tester aboard and I barely see it under 60 % with all hatches/windows closed. Is this normal? Should I consider installing permanent vents, or it's useless?

Thanks

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Check out nicro marine exhast and ventilation fans

http://www.marinco.com/brand/nicro

You said, "the odor that strucks me every time I get inside realy discuss me. Even things that we bring back home smells for many days."

Describe the odor...mildewy? Swampy? Sewer? Soft? Sharp? Kinda sweet/sour/sewerish? Combination of any of the above? All over the boat? Only in certain areas (if so, where?)?

You might also check out the link in my signature...

 

[Luman]

Re: Check out nicro marine exhast and ventilation fans

Thanks for the links.
Hard to explain as I never had any similar close experience than maybe old barns interior odor!?! Smells kinda sulfuric (not battery related, I've checked)! Like I said in a previous post, I'm getting condensation here and there and some floor panels have had taken water in small areas from other water problems (now fixed). The smell is everywhere. I really think that it's comming from the affected woods. Should I discard all boards that are affected, is there a way to clean them?
And to prevent that condensation, I guess I should go with vents like the ones from Nicro? There is also another smell under the nav table seat which I identify to be related to the holding tank plumbing (vent, disconected macerator pump, etc), that odor is easy to identify and I should get trough it easily. I doubt it is related to the first odor I'm talking of.
really appreciate your help!

 

[timvg]

We have lived on our 40.5 in both Seattle and Southern CA and don't have any odor. If we have it completely closed up, it may smell a little musty when it is first openned, but it's minor. I will admit that when we leave the boat we usually leave a hatch or two cracked, but that's because it gets warm here. But we do leave it closed up if we are out of town and haven't really had a problem.

When we first left Seattle and moved to CA, we would have some odor the first time we would flush the head if we havn't been aboard for awhile. Never had it in Seattle. We started using only fresh water and have been odor free for 6 years. We guessed there are more critters in the warmer CA waters than frigid Seattle.

We've always had an odor free boat, but that fact that we are on it much of the probably helps, since we are constantly using the systems.

As Peggy asked, where does the odor seem to originate from, and what kind of odor are you smelling?

 

[timvg]

One additional thing to look at? Does your boat have the original aluminum holding tank? We replaced ours with a plastic one from Triple M Plastics. It wouldn't take much of a hole to cause an odor and aluminum tanks will eventuallly leak.

I wish you good luck on the boat, because we have been very happy with ours. All boats have gremlins that are sometimes difficult to find. That's what boaters talk about when they get together.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I suspect two sources...

Permeated sanitation hoses and bilges and sumps in serious need of a REAL cleaning that includes rinsing all the dirty water out. If your ice box/refrigerator drains into the bilge I can almost guarantee that's a major source of your odor problem...'cuz water let to sit in a bilge is a "primordial soup" that sould indeed have a "sulphuric" character like rotten eggs.

So clean--really CLEAN!--your bilges and sumps with plenty of detergent and water, followed by flushing 'em out with plenty of clean water. Then use a bucket, sponge, dinghy bailer, wet vac or whatever you have to remove the last of the water and leave all hatches etc open so the bilges can dry out.

Odors are always strongest at their source...so once you've done that, it shouldn't be too hard to pinpoint any remaining sources so we can eliminate 'em.

Evan...you say you're flushing only with fresh water...hopefully you haven't connected it to your fresh water plumbing (BIG no-no!)...but if you're just adding water to the bowl with the shower head or a cup, you're not doing the toilet pump any good...'cuz what's in the bowl only goes through the bottom of the pump, leaving the seals, o-rings etc in the top half of the pump dry, which wears 'em out faster. No wonder you have to replace the pump so often! There's a very simple and inexpensive solution to sea water intake odor...do a search of this forum using that search term to find it.

 

[timvg]

Re: I suspect two sources...

Peggy: Yeh, we know about the added wear on the pump. We keep talking about doing a permanet fresh water set-up, and it's on our list. (You know the list that never ends.) Just finished re-doing all of our interior floor boards and replaced all of our canvas. And the new holding tank was definitely one of our more important purchases. Scrubbing after we took the old tank out was very satisfying, LOL.

Let's see..what else do I need? new sails, new lifelines, haul and paint the bottom.................. etc.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Peggy: Yeh, we know about the added wear on the pump. We keep talking about doing a permanet fresh water set-up, and it's on our list. (You know the list that never ends.)

So how far down on that list is a fix that costs all of $10?

Ok, maybe $15....

 

[arnie]

on my first boat i fought the same thing, tryed this and that, fought it my accidetent the hoses running to and from holding tanks was leting the smell from the holding tank come through i guess were they was old (they looked good). rub your hand up and down on them. if you smell the smell you r smelling on your hands you have fought it. you never know

 

[Luman]

Good valuable infos here!

Tvangrove, I'm glad to see that you are able to keep it odor free. I'm way norther than you are (Lake Champlain, NY), so our continental climate is normaly much drier here. So I'm guessing I shouldn't loose my time increasing the ventilation for now. Cracking windows could be an option inside the bimini/dodger, where rain wouldn't be much of a problem. I also forgot to say that we are a family of 6 which creates lots of humidity when temperature is cold and hatches and windows are closed. Another very good point of yours is the aluminium holding tank: yes, we still have it. Since I've never seen anything accumulate in the bilge, I have rejected the possibility of a leak but I might be wrong. The way all sumps connect together to drain in the bilge, it might let liquids to accumulate in hidden cavities!?! Right? If I get you right, I should remove that tank, inspect it along with the plumbing to confirm any leaks, inspect the surroundings, clean thoroughly with lots of water and detergent, remove the disabled macerator (prohibited here) and it's plumbing and swap the tank for a plastic one, no matter the aluminium one's condition. Finally, yes I love this boat and when I get everything fixed, it will be great to live in it.

Peggie, you have a very good point. I didn't think of it because I've never seen much accumulation in the bilge. Since I bought the boat I have put much of my care on searching any possible water leaks in the boat. So any time water would come in, it would be wiped before it gets to the bilge. Exemples: I first noticed the fridge and freezer leaks so I have done all the work described in the other topic of mine in this forum, then I saw leaks coming from both center water tanks, some water was going through the cover screws and their Beckson 6 inches deckplates visual inspection holes gaskets. One side window was leaking and recently, I found one fresh water plumbing fitting that was leaking. Very few of those leaks ever reached the bilge, so I didn't tought it could be a problem. Now I realize that it probably gets trapped here and there in the way to the bilge. I will do just what your suggesting. I will remove all flooring, clean sumps and bilge with detergent, pour plenty of water and vaccuum the remaining. All leaking problem being fixed, the next thing will be to find a way to solve those fridge and freezer condensation problem which is one source of the problem, I believe.

Arnie, thanks!, I will do that to!

Thank you all for your help

 

[timvg]

I wouldn't go thru the trouble of removing the tank untill you are putting a new one in. www.triplemplastcs.com already has the 40.5 molds. Many of us on here have used them. We didn't even realize that ours was slightly seeping until we took it out and I wouldn't have wanted to reinstall it. You'll eventually want to replace it, but it may not be the problem. When we replaced our tank, we also replaced the hose from the main head. We also never use the forward head for #2, because it's a long way from the holding tank.

The main thing is to try and figure out what the odor actually is. Lots of thinsg besides the head can cause smells. You'll figure it out eventually and then you'll have a good bar story for the yacht club. That's what we all do at the club, brag about about our weekly boat fixes. And since we're boaters, we're all "experts", LOL.

 

[timvg]

Peggy: I'm a boater. If I always took the logical approach, I wouldn't own a boat.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Peggy: I'm a boater. If I always took the logical approach, I wouldn't own a boat.

:dance: That's hard to argue with!

 

[Rick D]

Odor and Ventilation

First, you do have vents in the aft cabin which passively supply outside air. Secondly, I put a Day / Night vent in the forward hatch. I purchased it here. It is a help keeping the boat fresh. I have had them on four boats. Here is the link:http://shop.hunterowners.com/detail.htm?group=916

As far as odor, the first thing is to clean all the lockers. The second is to check the macerator. It (and hoses) smells if not flushed. Third: see Peggy's book for instructions how to check the hoses for permeation. Finally, replace the holding tank.

Most of us 40.5 owners have replaced the tank. You would be better off ordering it now and getting it done before the new season. When I pulled mine I fully expected it to be leaking. It was not, but it was weeping enough at the welds to produce plenty of odor. BTW, my hoses were OK which surprised me after a dozen years. When I replaced the tank, I have had no odor for the three or four years since, other than the first flush or two when the head intake purges itself after sitting a week or so.

I use a combination of ODORLOS and Raritan's KO in my tank, The KO I use once between emptying the tank and the ODORLOS I add weekly or whenever I visit. The products are compatible and Peggy and the mamufacturers will say to use one or the other; both is not necessary. Well, I use both and am happy doing so. I now also pump thirty flushes of salt water in the tank after emptying it with the macerator in order to clean the macerator and discharge hose. Works well for me. I also use CP as a rinse in the head and in the drains before I leave the boat. I also put some KO in the bilge altho I have a no-drip shaft seal so there is rarely much water there.

Oh, one other thing: a big source of odor can be the shower sump pumps in the heads. I assume you have already cleaned those thoroughly,

Good luck. The boat will be much more enjoyable when it doesn't smell.

 

[Luman]

Rick,

I like your idea of putting an intake in the forward hatch. I don't consider the aft vents to be a good ventilation system. It is more of a pressure regulating vent to me, if working alone. It can only help if there is something open somewhere else on the boat, especially if in the stream of the wind, or if there is a fan pushing air inside, which is not the case right now.

I'm very surprised that the interior smell is related to the holding tank and/or bilge/lockers conditions. But, thinking about it twice, I have neglected scrubbing the last ones since I bought the boat. So it does make sense.

I will follow your instructions above. Thanks to all of you for your help. I will keep you posted on my findings in this regard.

Cheers! :dance:

 

[Rick D]

Actually, I have the vent set to exhaust. My reasoning is that it would pull air through the boat.

 

[Luman]

Ooops,

Do you mean you have the hatch one set to exhaust?

 

[Rick D]

Correct. But, it's whatever works for you,

 

[Luman]

O.k.

What are the pros and cons for making it an exhaust rather than an intake. Ventilation wise, it should work better being an intake, but is there something else I should consider? Is it more prone for water leakage in rough seas as an intake? or something else?

I don't want to argue, I just want to take as much informations before doing it.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Rick D]

O.k.

What are the pros and cons for making it an exhaust rather than an intake. Ventilation wise, it should work better being an intake, but is there something else I should consider? Is it more prone for water leakage in rough seas as an intake? or something else?

I don't want to argue, I just want to take as much informations before doing it.

Thanks for your help.

No problem. Here is a PDF of a manual which contains their recommendations. http://www.marinco.com/files/support/product/manuals/minivent manual.pdf note exhaust is preferred IF there is vents in. IMHO, the stern vents qualify, thus the exhaust. BTW, the model available here has a positive closure so no concern if things get nasty. I have only closed it once. One more thing: do not even attempt this without a hole saw. You can get cheapies at Harbor Freight. Having said all that and that ventilation is good, I'm betting your smell is the holding tank. :cry: