Thinking about Sirius

[electricc0wb0y]

I am thinking about a Sirius 21/22 for trailer sailing. I am going to look at a couple this weekend. If anyone can make recommendations of things to look out for, then that would be great.

An earlier thread mentioned dry rot on the rudder...

With any swing keel I guess that you should push on the keel and make sure that she's solid.

Is there anything unusual to lookout for on these boats?

 

[Eric s/v Windrush]

The decks are foam cored, so there isn't any wet wood core to worry about! The hull is solid glassEverything else is what you'd look for on any other boat, in my opinion. You already mentioned checking the keel, if you can. I wouldn't think too many northern boats would suffer from dry rot rudder but I could be wrong. Mine is mahogany, and is varnished. The rudder blade is anti fouled.
The interior plywood bulkhead wood is particle board, and cheap! I'm going to replace mine with real plywood. It's 1/2" thick, and I calculate I need 2 sheets for all of it plus the table. That job won't require me to mortgage the house On the other hand the builder installed solid teak trim! Go figure.
Other things like leaks are maintenance issues that are fixable!
Good luck with your search. Hope you find yourself a great boat, and let us know how your shopping trip went!
Eric

 

[Petey]

new owner

I just bought a 1982 Sirius 22 - very stoked to have it to look forward to this summer. I think I have a really nice boat and wonder if anyone has an owners manual?
Thanks
Pete

The decks are foam cored, so there isn't any wet wood core to worry about! The hull is solid glassEverything else is what you'd look for on any other boat, in my opinion. You already mentioned checking the keel, if you can. I wouldn't think too many northern boats would suffer from dry rot rudder but I could be wrong. Mine is mahogany, and is varnished. The rudder blade is anti fouled.
The interior plywood bulkhead wood is particle board, and cheap! I'm going to replace mine with real plywood. It's 1/2" thick, and I calculate I need 2 sheets for all of it plus the table. That job won't require me to mortgage the house On the other hand the builder installed solid teak trim! Go figure.
Other things like leaks are maintenance issues that are fixable!
Good luck with your search. Hope you find yourself a great boat, and let us know how your shopping trip went!
Eric

 

[Eric s/v Windrush]

Re: new owner

Hi Pete.

Congrats on the new to you Sirius!
There's a manual available in the Files section of the siriusowners Yahoo Group.

Best regards
Eric

 

[electricc0wb0y]

We checked out our first Sirius this weekend. I was expecting a lot. It seemed like he had done a lot of work to clean her up and added a new motor. Come to find out he had replaced all the interior wood with composite board, and there was an aweful musty smell inside. He had about 4 large (room size) air fresheners in there to boot. The engine was a 2002 short shaft off a fishing boat. It looked worse than 70's engines that I have seen. There were stress fractures on on the bow rail mount, and the mount was shaky. One steel cable was frayed and one wasn't straight. Rope was tied straight to the danforth anchor. No chain.

If it wasn't musty, then I could have put some wood back in. The dealbreaker was his price. Firm at $6,000. What he paid plus what he put into it! Only 2 sails (main+jib). I wouldn't mind doing the small fixes, but it would need to be worked into the price. It seems that there will better out there for less.

I do have another question. Should the halyards be steel cables on the sail, or can the ropes tie directly to the sails?

 

[Eric s/v Windrush]

6 grand eh ?!? For the right boat maybe.

I don't know how the Sirius market is in New York, but others will no doubt turn up. Best thing is not to get discouraged. I suppose if the price was better it might be worth it. The motor sounds like one he found in a boat shed somewhere. I wouldn't go with a short shaft, so you'd be looking at roughly $1500 for a newer, and appropriate motor.
Curious what is the wood composite board? Are you refering to particle board?
I only have two sails as well, originals. Original jibs have slab reef points. They do me fine, but will need replacing in the next few years. I wouldn't mind a bigger genoa, maybe a 130, for the light air days.
RE wire to rope halyards. I've only ever seen these on much larger boats, and the splices are usually done by a rigger, as they are more complex. All rope halyards are fine for a boat like the Sirius. 1/4", or 5/16" are a decent size, in my opinion. I would recommend tying a knot called a buntline hitch to a shackle. Then the shackle connects to the head of the sail. A buntline hitch is compact, and locks down on itself. It usually needs to be cut off. It's a better knot than a bowline too for halyard knots.

 

[electricc0wb0y]

Curious what is the wood composite board? Are you refering to particle board?

I think that he may have had square knots holding the shackle on. Whatever he had, it did not look very reliable.

I don't know what exactly it was. He claimed that it was 'composite.' If I recall correctly, then it was white all the way through. I don't recall him putting any edging. He claimed that it wouldn't rot like wood. I think it's like particle board only made of composite shavings instead of wood. Only the door, the table, and the wall separating the head were replaced. No shelving, no trim, no boards to hold on the cusions, no splashguards, no cupboard under the sink, no wood trim on the keel winch. The keel wench seemed to be mounted on wood, and I don't understand why that hadn't rotted yet. Maybe the guy just didn't like wood?

In addition: no curtains for the v-berth/head. The tiller was mahogany, but the arm was replaced with an oak one. The arm had already snapped off the hinge, and it had been glued back on. The EZ-load trailer looked like it was bowing. He installed an auto AM/FM radio under the seat in the cockpit. It had a slide cover to protect it from water, but one wave with 2 inches of water in the cockpit would flood it. The light on the aft corner was snapped off (but he claimed to have a replacement.) The cabin lights didn't work, but he claimed that it was the bulbs.

The mast had been stepped before we got there, and I don't remember seeing the block anywhere. He didn't seem very interested in taking down the mast for us, so I at this point I assume that there was a problem with the hardware atop it. Also the boards of the left front storage compartment were snapped. Oh, he redid the board of the v-berth in compsoite as well.

I was totally pissed that I had driven 3 hours to see that. He didn't seem to think that anything needed to be fixed before the boat was safe to sail. That was my first experience buying something from somebody that dishonest (or maybe uninformed.)

I might be off to Ontario this weekend to investigate some Sirius 21's. We'll see!

 

[rwb]

Sirius search

I'm glad to hear you have stepped away from this boat priced at $6000.00. From my point of view that price tag would be for a boat in excellent condition. Good to know that your knowledge base is a good one. A good starting point for any boat is a recent boat survey done in recent time. Even though our boat had a number of need to do problems it had a recent survey that indicated the true condition of the boat. The recent survey was the selling point of our boat because I knew very little what to look for back then. The minor stuff which most boats require and personal touches you wish to do add to the pride of ownership.

Don't want to change your search for a Sirius, but the Catalina22 and the CS22 are very comparable boats. Both are swing keels and from owner personal info and personal viewing are good quality boats. Not that I would change from my Sirius but I mention as possible alternatives.

The particle board wood you mention sounds like the new composite material used for house decks and I note is available for marine use. As Eric mentioned the trim for the Sirius is teak yet the builder used press board material for locker covers etc. inside the cabin...go figure.

Again glad to know you know what you are looking for and good luck in your search...Bob

I think that he may have had square knots holding the shackle on. Whatever he had, it did not look very reliable.

I don't know what exactly it was. He claimed that it was 'composite.' If I recall correctly, then it was white all the way through. I don't recall him putting any edging. He claimed that it wouldn't rot like wood. I think it's like particle board only made of composite shavings instead of wood. Only the door, the table, and the wall separating the head were replaced. No shelving, no trim, no boards to hold on the cusions, no splashguards, no cupboard under the sink, no wood trim on the keel winch. The keel wench seemed to be mounted on wood, and I don't understand why that hadn't rotted yet. Maybe the guy just didn't like wood?

In addition: no curtains for the v-berth/head. The tiller was mahogany, but the arm was replaced with an oak one. The arm had already snapped off the hinge, and it had been glued back on. The EZ-load trailer looked like it was bowing. He installed an auto AM/FM radio under the seat in the cockpit. It had a slide cover to protect it from water, but one wave with 2 inches of water in the cockpit would flood it. The light on the aft corner was snapped off (but he claimed to have a replacement.) The cabin lights didn't work, but he claimed that it was the bulbs.

The mast had been stepped before we got there, and I don't remember seeing the block anywhere. He didn't seem very interested in taking down the mast for us, so I at this point I assume that there was a problem with the hardware atop it. Also the boards of the left front storage compartment were snapped. Oh, he redid the board of the v-berth in compsoite as well.

I was totally pissed that I had driven 3 hours to see that. He didn't seem to think that anything needed to be fixed before the boat was safe to sail. That was my first experience buying something from somebody that dishonest (or maybe uninformed.)

I might be off to Ontario this weekend to investigate some Sirius 21's. We'll see!

 

[electricc0wb0y]

Re: Sirius search

Also I am speaking in terms of 6000USD or about 7330CAD. Just so we are on the same page.

 

[sneakypete]

Thanks for the info Eric - it looks extremely useful - I was wondering how to lock the keel down
Pete

Hi Pete.

Congrats on the new to you Sirius!
There's a manual available in the Files section of the siriusowners Yahoo Group.

Best regards
Eric

 

[electricc0wb0y]

Does anybody know anything about the Sirius 20? Is it similar to the 21/22?

 

[Eric s/v Windrush]

Pete
You should have a (roughly) 3/8"X4" bolt on your boat somewhere. It will be very soft metal so that it snaps if you accidently ground with the keel locked down. If not , you'll have to find a bolt. Brass maybe. I can measure mine if you like

 

[Eric s/v Windrush]

Does anybody know anything about the Sirius 20? Is it similar to the 21/22?

I've never heard of one. Not to say somebody else hasn't.

 

[electricc0wb0y]

Based on http://www.sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_ID=4986 my suspicious is that it is the same design. If it comes up for sale, then I will take a look at it. It would be one of the first made. I am hoping that there aren't any significant design differences. (Like no foam or something significantly different.)

I don't like to rely on the seller's word! In fact, knowing the answer allows me to test the owner on their knowledge and honesty.

 

[rwb]

keel lock down bolt

Hi, I would use an aluminium bolt...could be that brass will not shear. I bought a length of aluminium stock at Cdn Tire... then cut to length and thread both ends. Mine is 3/8 inch diameter by 5 inches long. This should be installed with rubber washers backed by metal washers to size of hole boss as water will tend to enter in rougher water or on heavy heels. I use wing nuts to the ends. I know in talking with some folks they don't use this safety item, I would for sure. By the way the aluminium bolt does shear. We hit a underwater structure and thankfully it sheared thus preventing damage....Bob







Hi,

Based on http://www.sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_ID=4986 my suspicious is that it is the same design. If it comes up for sale, then I will take a look at it. It would be one of the first made. I am hoping that there aren't any significant design differences. (Like no foam or something significantly different.)

I don't like to rely on the seller's word! In fact, knowing the answer allows me to test the owner on their knowledge and honesty.

 

[sneakiestpete]

Bolt is missing

Hi Eric - that would be so helpful - I download the brochures and was pouring through them looking for the measurement - I found the place the bolt is supposed to go to lock the keel in the down, but can't find the bolt. If you don't mind that would be great. I feel a little sheepish - I bought the boat - the guy advertised it as a 22' - but it looks more like the 21' with the flat transom. As near as I can tell from the Hull ID # it was manufactured in December 1982 - does that sound right for a 21' or could it be a straight trasnom 22' ?
Thanks
Pete

Pete
You should have a (roughly) 3/8"X4" bolt on your boat somewhere. It will be very soft metal so that it snaps if you accidently ground with the keel locked down. If not , you'll have to find a bolt. Brass maybe. I can measure mine if you like

 

[sneakiestpete]

Thanks for the info - will look for one that size!
Pete

Hi, I would use an aluminium bolt...could be that brass will not shear. I bought a length of aluminium stock at Cdn Tire... then cut to length and thread both ends. Mine is 3/8 inch diameter by 5 inches long. This should be installed with rubber washers backed by metal washers to size of hole boss as water will tend to enter in rougher water or on heavy heels. I use wing nuts to the ends. I know in talking with some folks they don't use this safety item, I would for sure. By the way the aluminium bolt does shear. We hit a underwater structure and thankfully it sheared thus preventing damage....Bob







Hi,

 

[rwb]

keel lock down bolt

Just a follow up...I hope everyone is aware of the true purpose of this aluminium bolt. With this bolt installed through the keel in it's full down position it will prevent the keel from collapsing back into the keel trunk if the boat was ever knocked down. This boat is said to self right in this case. If this bolt is not installed and if you were knocked down (boat on side) and the keel retracts it will be very difficult to right the boat.

I'm sure everyone is aware of the bolt's purpose....but just in case. As I've said some Sirius owners that I have talked with do not install this bolt through the keel, but as a safety device I never sail without it for the above purpose....Bob

Thanks for the info - will look for one that size!
Pete

 

[electricc0wb0y]

Will a rolling furler effect trailerability? Will it be easier/harder than putting up a jib? Obviously it would be easier if I can leave the genoa rolled up while I trailer, but is this safe? Is it easy rerigging a rolling furler?

 

[rwb]

roller furler

Hi, first a roller furling system is without a doubt a great investment. The Genoa or Jib is fully worked from the cockpit once installed. I sail solo much of the time and this gets away from going forward to adjust the sail. It must be remembered that the roller furler sail must be fitted with a sun shield fabric on the leach and foot of sail to protect the dacron sail material from the sun's rays. This is because once installed it remains on the furler and is rolled onto the foil portion that fits over the forestay wire. I see no problem of leaving the sail furled on the unit when you trailer. We leave our sails furled onto the unit for the season at our slip. The rigging of the furler system is the same as would be for raising or lowering, the furler system remains fully assembled and all that is required is to connect to the chain plate as you would with the standard hank on forestay. Then run your jib sheet as per normal and then run your furler line back to the cockpit.

Another great advantage with the furler system is that one sail does the work of many types. You can unfurl the total sail area for normal sailing but you can roll the sail in some if the breeze is too strong for full area. One sail fits most conditions so to speak. Hank on saliors carry a number of foresails to fit the conditions, while furling systems normally use just one.

I hope this helps, it's a great help for those that dread going foreward or sail solo....Bob

Will a rolling furler effect trailerability? Will it be easier/harder than putting up a jib? Obviously it would be easier if I can leave the genoa rolled up while I trailer, but is this safe? Is it easy rerigging a rolling furler?