Now that you've blown all of Uncle Harry's money on a spendy new boat, let's ask a tough question. When it comes to sailing performance, is it the design of the boat or the skill of the sailor? One sailor complains that a particular boat is tender. Another sailor adjusts sail trim on the same boat and the "tenderness" disappears. One sailor complains that a particular boat won't go to weather. Another sailor takes the same boat to the windward mark with no problem. As you become a better sailor, do you find more faults with your boat's design or have you learned to better appreciate her abilities? And yet even Russell Coutts couldn't win the America's Cup in a wood hull, full keel cruiser. Some boats clearly handle conditions and perform better than others. What's your view? In winds and water reasonably suited to the boat's capabilities, is it the skill of the sailor or the design of the boat? Tell us here then vote in the quiz at the bottom of the home page. (Quiz by Gary Wyngarden)
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tom
it's definately both
it is like the nuture nature question. A specific example is myself when I went from a sunfish to a laser. Immediately I could point closer and sail faster into the wind. Off the wind the Laser's advantage seemed to disappear. The same thing when I went from a Helsen 22 to a Macgregor 26. The Mac was the faster boat on all points of sail unless you assume that I became a better sailor during the transition. On the other hand sailing a friends boat I could always get more speed. He tended to sheet too tightly and point too high. That is also the basis of class racing. When everybody is sailing a laser the winner has more luck and skill. Although all of the lasers could probably outrun any Sunfish.
it is like the nuture nature question. A specific example is myself when I went from a sunfish to a laser. Immediately I could point closer and sail faster into the wind. Off the wind the Laser's advantage seemed to disappear. The same thing when I went from a Helsen 22 to a Macgregor 26. The Mac was the faster boat on all points of sail unless you assume that I became a better sailor during the transition. On the other hand sailing a friends boat I could always get more speed. He tended to sheet too tightly and point too high. That is also the basis of class racing. When everybody is sailing a laser the winner has more luck and skill. Although all of the lasers could probably outrun any Sunfish.
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John Kivel
I vote sailor
I am a new to sailing, in my first season on my first boat. I have had trouble getting out of the marina and watched the boat next to me sail out with ease. It's the sailor. John, Ann Arbor
I am a new to sailing, in my first season on my first boat. I have had trouble getting out of the marina and watched the boat next to me sail out with ease. It's the sailor. John, Ann Arbor
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Lionel
the human factor
In europe there are a couple of races in which sailors compete with exactely the same boat beneteau 36 for example - delivered under factory control Same boats - same weather condition - Considering that there is a winner a second third ect... the clasification reflects the difference between sailors skills during the race
In europe there are a couple of races in which sailors compete with exactely the same boat beneteau 36 for example - delivered under factory control Same boats - same weather condition - Considering that there is a winner a second third ect... the clasification reflects the difference between sailors skills during the race
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JPF
Both, but sailing skill has a strong influence.
My current boat tracks better and is more stable by virtue of it's design, but my previous boat was more responsive and could turn on a dime. I like to think I get to be a better sailor with each sail. Been sailing 37 years and am still learning...
My current boat tracks better and is more stable by virtue of it's design, but my previous boat was more responsive and could turn on a dime. I like to think I get to be a better sailor with each sail. Been sailing 37 years and am still learning...
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Don Berger
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Jeff D.
Sailor
Obviously boat design is fundamental to a boat's performance but all things being equal, the sailor, or as we used to say the nut on the tiller, is the real variable. I suspect that at least 50% of the people that read this board have never attempted to tune their rig. An untuned rig can seriouslty effect a boat's handling. How many utilize a cunningham, outhaul or backstay adjuster? The use, or non-use of these adjustments, contribute to a boat's tenderness. These adjustments don't really cost money, you are just spending a little knowledge. If you count those with blown out sails, guilty, then again you are affecting a boat's performance. It takes a keen interest and and a long learning curve to set up a boat correctly, so my vote is with the sailor.
Obviously boat design is fundamental to a boat's performance but all things being equal, the sailor, or as we used to say the nut on the tiller, is the real variable. I suspect that at least 50% of the people that read this board have never attempted to tune their rig. An untuned rig can seriouslty effect a boat's handling. How many utilize a cunningham, outhaul or backstay adjuster? The use, or non-use of these adjustments, contribute to a boat's tenderness. These adjustments don't really cost money, you are just spending a little knowledge. If you count those with blown out sails, guilty, then again you are affecting a boat's performance. It takes a keen interest and and a long learning curve to set up a boat correctly, so my vote is with the sailor.
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Terry Arnold
The Spray factor
Ever so often I reread the classic Joshua Slocum "Sailing Alone Around the World." He spends a lot of time praising the sailing qualities of this old sloop turned yawl that he resurrected from a pasture grave. Despite Slocum's attribution of every sailing virture to the Spray, every time I read it, his exploits with that old boat convince me anew that it is the sailor that makes all the difference. His lifetime experience as a sailing captain was far more important than any intrinsic superiority of his boat. So it is today.
Ever so often I reread the classic Joshua Slocum "Sailing Alone Around the World." He spends a lot of time praising the sailing qualities of this old sloop turned yawl that he resurrected from a pasture grave. Despite Slocum's attribution of every sailing virture to the Spray, every time I read it, his exploits with that old boat convince me anew that it is the sailor that makes all the difference. His lifetime experience as a sailing captain was far more important than any intrinsic superiority of his boat. So it is today.
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John Dawson
Yes, I watched
and I would not describe NZL-32's performance as 'substantially equivalent' that year.
and I would not describe NZL-32's performance as 'substantially equivalent' that year.
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Harold Turpin
Same Boat / Different Sailors
Analogy; inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably,agree in others. In 1959 Omerdavid Overbey, could take two identical 1959 chevys, 348 ci, tri-powered carbs and drive either car, beating the other driver by at least 1/2 a car. Given two identical boats I would say the Sailor's skill will prevail every time.
Analogy; inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably,agree in others. In 1959 Omerdavid Overbey, could take two identical 1959 chevys, 348 ci, tri-powered carbs and drive either car, beating the other driver by at least 1/2 a car. Given two identical boats I would say the Sailor's skill will prevail every time.
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Rod Swank
The Boat or the Sailor
The design of the boat and the wind and sea conditions will dectate how an experienced sailor will trim the boat to make it perform optiumally.
The design of the boat and the wind and sea conditions will dectate how an experienced sailor will trim the boat to make it perform optiumally.
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Scott Pasley
Explain one design's popularity if its the boat !
If it is the boat that matters most, why is one design sailing so popular?One design racing pits the sailors against eachother,not the boats. In PHRF racing the inherint design differences of boats (i.e. hull speed) is addressed, but we have crews that sail on boats with a PHRF of 170 in our fleet that regularly beat crews on boats with PHRF's of less than 100. Would be neat to see someone try to set up a group of engineers that could try to build better boats and have a group of clones race them, we could call it one clone racing.
If it is the boat that matters most, why is one design sailing so popular?One design racing pits the sailors against eachother,not the boats. In PHRF racing the inherint design differences of boats (i.e. hull speed) is addressed, but we have crews that sail on boats with a PHRF of 170 in our fleet that regularly beat crews on boats with PHRF's of less than 100. Would be neat to see someone try to set up a group of engineers that could try to build better boats and have a group of clones race them, we could call it one clone racing.
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frank arndorfer
The sailor
There's a lot of good boats out there but it really takes the sailor to bring it out. I race with a local group and the youngest member on the team is me at age 57. The rest of the group is well into their sixties. They've been sailing together for over twenty years. They sail a twenty-year old Catalina 32. Jib and main only. The boat (and gear) show it's age. But this group has been unbeatable for the past 6 years simply because they know how to wring every ounce out of the boat. We beat race boats; we beat bigger boats; we beat boats we have absolutely no business beating. But we beat 'em. It's definitely the sailor.
There's a lot of good boats out there but it really takes the sailor to bring it out. I race with a local group and the youngest member on the team is me at age 57. The rest of the group is well into their sixties. They've been sailing together for over twenty years. They sail a twenty-year old Catalina 32. Jib and main only. The boat (and gear) show it's age. But this group has been unbeatable for the past 6 years simply because they know how to wring every ounce out of the boat. We beat race boats; we beat bigger boats; we beat boats we have absolutely no business beating. But we beat 'em. It's definitely the sailor.
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Angel
The Master at Sea !
I think Its the Sailor behind the Wheel...You Really have to know what your doing when Your on the water.....The waters are very Mysterious and You never know what lies ahead....to Handle a Sailboat takes the Skill of a Master.........lol..I wish I had an Uncle Harry to ENJOY his Money..
I think Its the Sailor behind the Wheel...You Really have to know what your doing when Your on the water.....The waters are very Mysterious and You never know what lies ahead....to Handle a Sailboat takes the Skill of a Master.........lol..I wish I had an Uncle Harry to ENJOY his Money..
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Brad Newell
experience
When I started sailing, 49 years ago, I'm sure that I would have said 90% was the design and 10% was the skipper; not wanting to blame myself for my lack of performance. The years have convinced me that performance is at least 80% due to the skipper, for a given design.
When I started sailing, 49 years ago, I'm sure that I would have said 90% was the design and 10% was the skipper; not wanting to blame myself for my lack of performance. The years have convinced me that performance is at least 80% due to the skipper, for a given design.
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Paul Michaelis
Sailors are like auto drivers
The problem with many sailors is that they are no more competent at sailing than at driving a car. If they don't have the newest in go-fast technology they blame the boat/car. I have seen people who polish the bottom of their boats to a fair-the-well for that last 100th of a second and then trim their sails improperly for the existing conditions. They stall their sails, point too high and make massive leeway; but hey, they're in command. Unfortunately, drivers are the same, they don't understand that practice is required to gain competence. The ownership of a boat or a driver's license is not the ticket to talent. Sailing skills are not acquired by desire, they are learned through experience. I have seen many an older experienced skipper put younger sailors to shame with their knowledge of currents, wind shifts, weather prediction and tactics. Instant competence and the accompanying gratification is not available over the counter on the water.
The problem with many sailors is that they are no more competent at sailing than at driving a car. If they don't have the newest in go-fast technology they blame the boat/car. I have seen people who polish the bottom of their boats to a fair-the-well for that last 100th of a second and then trim their sails improperly for the existing conditions. They stall their sails, point too high and make massive leeway; but hey, they're in command. Unfortunately, drivers are the same, they don't understand that practice is required to gain competence. The ownership of a boat or a driver's license is not the ticket to talent. Sailing skills are not acquired by desire, they are learned through experience. I have seen many an older experienced skipper put younger sailors to shame with their knowledge of currents, wind shifts, weather prediction and tactics. Instant competence and the accompanying gratification is not available over the counter on the water.
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Pete Brady
Its the Sailor
Given that the boat does not have any great problems it is always the sailor. I have seen many people get in an under performing boat and shine.
Given that the boat does not have any great problems it is always the sailor. I have seen many people get in an under performing boat and shine.
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Dan
Performance
Each boat needs a sailor to sail to it's potential. Sailing to the potential of the boat is what a sailor does. Of course, a fast boat sailed poorly may still beat a slower boat sailed to it's potential.
Each boat needs a sailor to sail to it's potential. Sailing to the potential of the boat is what a sailor does. Of course, a fast boat sailed poorly may still beat a slower boat sailed to it's potential.
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John W. Averell
Oink Oink
C'mon...Let's fact it - Some boats are pigs. A nice Sunfish with a fresh, flat sail will run rings around any snub-nosed pram. It's an extreme comparison, but proves the point that performance can be inherent in boat design. Of course, an accomplished snubby sailor will end up fishing an inexperienced Sunfish sailor out of the drink, after he/she has run a few smirking rings around him/her. So maybe skill has something to do with it.
C'mon...Let's fact it - Some boats are pigs. A nice Sunfish with a fresh, flat sail will run rings around any snub-nosed pram. It's an extreme comparison, but proves the point that performance can be inherent in boat design. Of course, an accomplished snubby sailor will end up fishing an inexperienced Sunfish sailor out of the drink, after he/she has run a few smirking rings around him/her. So maybe skill has something to do with it.
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Emil
Killers, fillers, and fodder
Aerial combat is another arena where substantially equivalent machines must be operated to their maximum potential. Historically, 5% of the pilots will inflict 40% of the damage to the opposing force. Of the remaining 95%, about 1 in 5 stands a 50-50 chance of surviving their first decisive combat engagement. Given any reasonable proximate boats, the skilled sailor will prevail.
Aerial combat is another arena where substantially equivalent machines must be operated to their maximum potential. Historically, 5% of the pilots will inflict 40% of the damage to the opposing force. Of the remaining 95%, about 1 in 5 stands a 50-50 chance of surviving their first decisive combat engagement. Given any reasonable proximate boats, the skilled sailor will prevail.
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