Ive always used a piece of yarn tied to my uppers about 7 or 8 ft off the deck as a wind direction indicator. recently someone commented about using telltales on the lowers. Does it make any difference?
telltales comment
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Biff...
on the boat I race we made tell-tales from those plastic bread bag closures and eight inch pieces of cassette tape. They're more sensitive to wind movement, especially in light air and don't get waterlogged in rain. We fly them about head high off the deck on the uppers.
Don't know what the value would be for attaching them to the lowers as they are more inboard and possibly subjected to turbulence off the mast itself.
on the boat I race we made tell-tales from those plastic bread bag closures and eight inch pieces of cassette tape. They're more sensitive to wind movement, especially in light air and don't get waterlogged in rain. We fly them about head high off the deck on the uppers.
Don't know what the value would be for attaching them to the lowers as they are more inboard and possibly subjected to turbulence off the mast itself.
More importantly you need telltales on the genoa and main. I don't know who would be interested in air flow at the shrouds (either upper or lower). Both the helm and trimmers need to watch headsail telltales to drive the boat. A set of luff telltales up the headsail are a good indicator of wind sheer.
Not useful on either uppers or lowers.
You need to watch the headsail telltales along with the second from the top telltail mounted on your mainsai.
Alan is absolutely correct.
You need to watch the headsail telltales along with the second from the top telltail mounted on your mainsai.
i donot race. the tell tales i use are plastic trash bag ties , cut into 3 pieces..tied on the stays--they tell me from where the wind blows so i can not have toi break my neck looking at my masthead....they work great and seem fairly accurate in telling wind direction for my uses. i dislike the ones on sails as they only tell what is happening inside the sails. not useful to me.
Telltales on headsail luffs are the best for use when going to weather and same goes with tell tales on the leech of the mainsail. Shroud tell tales are nice additions, but aren't as effective as something on top of the mast which is clear of all sail obstruction. Not sure what to say about the guy who has a bad neck. He can buy electronic wind instruments to look at eye level I guess.
"...on the boat I race we made tell-tales from those plastic bread bag closures ..."
Dan, can you explain this further? I also use cassette tape, but it is tied to the shrouds and only to give me an indication of wind direction and strength. How do you use the bread bag closures? Thanks!
Dan, can you explain this further? I also use cassette tape, but it is tied to the shrouds and only to give me an indication of wind direction and strength. How do you use the bread bag closures? Thanks!
If they're on the shrouds, you can't really call them tell tales. They don't really tell you anything about airflow over the sails.... just wind direction at that point. I have some with little wind vanes, called Davis Wind-Tels, I bought at SD Sailing Supply that fit on the shrouds... I really like them because they are in the same line of sight I'm looking at when checking the jib telltales..... Especially handy when broad reaching where I can try to keep them at 90 deg.
http://www.apsltd.com/gallerypopup.aspx?GalleryID=868
http://www.apsltd.com/gallerypopup.aspx?GalleryID=868
I'm not Dan... but he attaches the cassette tape to the bread bag closers, then snaps them on the wire which allows them to rotate, rather than wrap around the shroud. You'll have to wrap some tape around the wire to keep them from sliding down.
There are commercial versions of this devise you can purchase just about anywhere if you don't eat bread or only listen to CD's.
http://www.apsltd.com/c-4713-telltalesshrouds.aspx
Joe...
I've been using the Davis tells for years on several different boats, in spite of the eye-rolling glances I frequently get from the racer-types. I also have a masthead Windex and tell-tales on the jib and main.
The Davis tells do make things easier on my old neck. I've also noticed that whilst on a beam reach or closer, if the leeward tell starts to get squirrely, it's usually an indication that I'm sailing too far off the wind for my sail set.
Nice to know someone else actually uses them!!!
Paul
You will never get anywhere near good performance without telltales on your sails. Fulness and luffing only tells you about 20% of how the wind is flowing over the sails. Try putting some on and you will see a big difference in your speed. I'm not talking about racing speed, just a good cruising speed.
if 10 kts isnt good performance then i donot want performance---we have plenty fine performance without placing telltales where i was always taught never to place them LOL--i was taught to place them on the shrouds or stays as they will tell you what you want to know--from where come the winds.....lol---and if there is enough wind to fill a sail.. i will continue to place them where they belong--on the stays, as that is EXACTLY what i want to know--i watch my sails and i know where the wind goes on and in them----this is only one of the points upon which the folks who learned sailing in schools and under yacht club supervision disagree with those of us who learned the old fashioned way---and will always be a point upon which we choose to disagree......smoooth sailing----
ROFLMAO...some folks do not NEED to have stuffies placed in places they were taught to keep clean of stuffies----there ARE folks with a good feel for wind and current and do not NEED to use things to allegedly help performance----and i suppose you DISAGREE that 10 kts forward momentum for a 7 kt rated hull is not good performance----telltales are a tool useable for telling wind direction. some racers like to use them in a fashion they were not originally intended. is alll goood.....place-able anywhere the skipper of the boat WANTS them placed.
i wish you well---smooooth sailing.....
I have always used telltales on sails and rigging when racing. On Jibs I use red and green yarn pushed back from and right through the luff with a needle and a tight knot on the back side, these protrude away from the cloth just enough that they fly easy and don't stick in the rain. Port and starboard are staggered so one doesn't affect the view of the other through the sail.
I use cassette tape on the upper shrouds and backstay for extreme light air (less than 3 knots)and we have a lot of that in the Northwest. That's the only time I allow smoking on the boat because none of the tells on the sail will fly. I prefer the uppers over lowers to mount tells on, because they are less affected by zephyrs reflecting off the main.
Now I'm cruising, I care a lot less, and I use a second wind vane on my bow pulpit, and it seems to work okay.
Have fun
Joe S
I use cassette tape on the upper shrouds and backstay for extreme light air (less than 3 knots)and we have a lot of that in the Northwest. That's the only time I allow smoking on the boat because none of the tells on the sail will fly. I prefer the uppers over lowers to mount tells on, because they are less affected by zephyrs reflecting off the main.
Now I'm cruising, I care a lot less, and I use a second wind vane on my bow pulpit, and it seems to work okay.
Have fun
Joe S
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That's interesting, Paul. When I got them I was sick of the cassette tape thing... a total pain... how cheap can you get? for cryin' out loud. Never have had any funny looks, in fact, my neighbors got sets also after they saw how much I liked them. Especially when I told them it saved me from craning my old neck. Like I said, they are particularly convenient when sailing off the wind when telltales are useless.
Biggest issue is that the plastic tails wear out in a year or so... but they sell replacements and they're easily changed. I think I'll start removing them to get them out of the sun when I'm away from the boat so they'll last longer.
Marcia, Alan, Franklin Joe...
Marcia: Joe is dead on as to how to make telltales with the bread bag closure tabs and cassette tape. Yes, you need to tape the shroud to keep them from sliding down. If made carefully they can look like "professional" go-fast tools, not "Red Neck Racegear"! :dance:
Alan & Franklin: The shroud tell-tales are used in addition to the traditional tell-tales on the main and jib. On the race boat we also have a Windex at the mast-head and an Apparent Wind meter in the cockpit. I come from the Penske/Donohue race school of thought of "Unfair Advantage" perspective.
Joe: right you are!
Marcia: Joe is dead on as to how to make telltales with the bread bag closure tabs and cassette tape. Yes, you need to tape the shroud to keep them from sliding down. If made carefully they can look like "professional" go-fast tools, not "Red Neck Racegear"! :dance:
Alan & Franklin: The shroud tell-tales are used in addition to the traditional tell-tales on the main and jib. On the race boat we also have a Windex at the mast-head and an Apparent Wind meter in the cockpit. I come from the Penske/Donohue race school of thought of "Unfair Advantage" perspective.
Joe: right you are!
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