Should I buy this V-22

[judsonj]

Hey, I am very new to sailing boats bigger 15'. I love sailing and my wife and I would like to take a step up and get a boat that we can trailer 1 mile to the boat launch for a bit of day sailing and perhaps the occasional over night. 23 feet is about the maximum that will fit in my storage space. I have found a Venture 22 that seems reasonably priced. I went to look at the boat the other day and I used this post http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/macgregor-venture-22-a-88930.html for a list of things to look for and the boat checked out in nearly all aspects.

The few issues I noticed are that the gel coat is oxidized (white powder on your hand after a swipe). The u-bolt that is fixed to the bow for trailering purposes seems not to be tightened all the way (it slides in and out about an inch). Finally the swing keel is of unknown quality (I took pictures, see below). I am simply no judge of these these things and I was hoping someone might sound in who has experience with these.

So that is my first question. What shape is this swing keel in. I know it can be costly to rehab one of these. I am hoping this one has several years left in it before that becomes an issue. The boat was sailed only in fresh water for years until last summer when it spent the summer moored in salt water. If it helps I can take more/better photos when I visit the boat again.

My second question is about a reasonable price. The owner is asking $2500. It comes with a main and jib, a late 80's Honda 4-stroke 7.5hp outboard, a trailer and many incidentals. In my review of the boat I noticed a few blocks that would need to be replaced and it might need some work to get the running lights up and running though I don't plan on sailing at night. Let me know if you need more information to assess the boat.

Regarding the photos below, obviously it would have been better to see the whole keel but that really isn't possible. Also I should have knocked that little bit of shmutz off the end. When I crawled under there it turned out to just be dried seaweed (?).

I would really appreciated any thoughts. Thanks!

 

[patrickfarley]

I had one and I loved it.
I think that the most valuable thing on the boat is the motor. I found mine for $500 with a 2cycle outboard and $300 for the trailer with fair sails.
For that price I think you should get very good sails. Your keel looks good to me. I have seen much worse. Be sure to check the bolt if you buy it and the cable. Both are easy to check and replace, with a car jack, if needed.

It's funny that the one you are looking at has a loose u-bolt. Mine did also when I bought it. I remember having a hard time tightening it but I cannot remember why.

Let me be clear. I am not an expert.

 

[topcat0399]

You didn't mention what year the V22 was.

Bow eye: Minor.
Lots of times what happens is in the factory they throw a piece of wood up in there and slap some glass on it encseing the wood. They drill thru it and put the Ubolt in. Overtime the wood rots and the bolts start to crunch the encasing glass. Easy fix. I simply ground all of that out of there, cut a short piece of galvanized thick wall 1-5/8 pipe; drilled it for the Ubolt legs, slapped it in there and bolted it tight. Naturally I countersunk and sealed the holes.

Powdery gel-coat - nothing lasts forever - paint it.

Electrical/light work - again nothing last forever; not very difficult to rewire.

Your keel; as mention; seen a lot worse. It looks like a solid iron one, count yourself lucky with that. Any boat that gets old and has a swing keel will eventually need maintenance done to it. Its more labor than expense. We are overhauling ours next year.

If I were you I would be more concerned with the condition of the decks and cores. Cracks in the hull, really serious stuff. I learned that the hard way. Just remember - any plastic boat can be fixed with more plastic. Not real tough - just kind of crappy work.

Also as mentioned - engines are a major expense. So are sails.
If the engine and sails are good I could overlook a lot of little things.

Hard to judge if the boat is worth that without seeing more - my gut feeling is that's a little steep.

 

[judsonj]

Thanks for taking a look, I really appreciate it. Glad to hear the keel looks good. I am going to head over this weekend and hopefully we can hoist the sails so I can see all of them. I looked at them in the bag and they looked great.

As far as the age of the boat goes it is an 1981. I feel like I gave the hull a pretty good looking over and the topside looked good. There was a sliver of daylight where the piece of steel at the base of the shrouds came through into the cabin. It looked like some moisture came in there but that would seem an easy fix.

How do I check the swing keel cable? I checked the pivot bolt but wasn't sure how to find the cable.

Oh one other thing, regarding pricing. Doing some comparison pricing in my area it seems like this motor is worth about $700. I am having a little trouble figuring out how much is a well-maintained (though with no extras) Mac Venture 22 is worth? And the trailer? I was thinking $1000 for the boat $300 for the trailer bringing me to a grand total of $2000. Does that seem fair?

Thanks!

 

[Freedom77]

We owned '71 V-222 #441 PENNY SUE TOO, for five years. Hauled from Baja to BC and all points in between. Spent many weekends at Catalina. Sailed the San Juans for a week. Upside, the keel is cast iron as opposed to the original fiberglassed version which cracked and swelled up. By the way don't you know it's rude to look under a ladies skirts :naughty: It's not to difficult to jack up the boat, roll out the trailer drop and inspect and repaint the swing keel. As far as the price, I haven't shopped for a boat in 35 years. The powdery gel coat can be washed off and buffed out. How is the interior? What kind of sails, winches, cleats etc? Send more pics. Blue Water Yachts there in Seattle is a great resource because the specialize in Venture/Mac stuff. Keep us posted. If you buy her you'll love her.

 

[RideTheWind]

You should be able to bring the gel back IMO.
I just bought an 81' Mac 21 and it was oxidized.
Washed it. Then used a buffer with 1 part wash and wax, and it looks
Pretty good now if I do say. 4 strokes are pricey, but 2
Strokes are fairly cheap. My guy was asking 1,800 with a 4 stroke
But I paid 1,000 with an old 2 stroke Evinrude.
I have looked around at 22s and 21s recently for comparison and
I dare say it sounds like yours may be overpriced. I have seen 22s in this
area with a CDI furler etc in that range... Might be a Catalina.
It should be noted that I just bought my boat so others here are more
qualified. And pricing seems to be a bit regional.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Before you even consider painting it, try this: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117266

If you continue to consider painting, then do a search here on Polyglow or Poliglow. Mixed reviews, and painting of any kind has its limitations.

Good luck, nice boats.

 

[judsonj]

Well, thanks for all the feedback. I did manage to get a good look at the swing keel cable and it was in excellent order. The winch around which it was wound however looked pretty rusty (actually the first rust I have seen on the boat). It would seem hard to keep this mechanism from getting soaked with saltwater over and over again. Is this normal? The cable looked good. the pivot bolt looked good as well, it is the just the winch housing that is pretty rusted.

In regards to painting, since I would likely have it in the water less than 10 times this season I am leaning towards holding off on messing with the hull until next winter when I think I would try polishing it (thanks for that link btw). Seem reasonable?

 

[topcat0399]

Sounds like you are up for it.

Taking apart and cleaning up the keel winches on these boats is a simple matter.
I made our old rusty keel winch look and feel brand new in a couple of hours time.

BTW: There is no bringing back the gel coat on our old boat - tried it and its just too thin. we plan to paint once the mods are all done.

Good luck.

 

[judsonj]

So I took a final look at the boat. We stepped the mast, raised the sails (they look good), started the motor (first pull) and rigged the mainsheet.

I have two questions. The mast seems pretty straight forward but the boom on either end seemed a little flimsy. Now, obviously this is just a day sailer, but the connection to the mast, where the boom is allowed to roll by loosening a wing nut seemed a little dicey but tolerable. Has anyone heard of a failure at this connection point? My bigger issue is with the other end of the boom where the mainsheet double block is attached. Forgive me this clumsy description but I will try my best to describe what the problem is and maybe you can tell me if it is supposed to be like that or if it can be fixed or neither. At the aft end of the boom there is a plate that appears to be riveted to the butt end of the boom. A bolt passes into this plate and secures the hanger for the mainsheet block. The bolt is really loose. The head of the bolt can loosely travel a half inch in and out. Once pulled out it seems to securely stop but the whole thing seems funny to me. Perhaps a bigger problem is that I cannot pull the plate off and secure the bolt better because it is riveted. How do I get in there?!

My second question is about rigging the mainsheet. We did what I have seen google images of and read in the retyped manual I found online. Fix to the cleat on the port side, pass through boom block to the standup block on the starboard side, then back through the boom block to a swiveling fairlead and cam cleat. My issue is with this last bit. If I have done this right, then when I trim sail (especially on a port tack) I will be drawing line through this cleat and right into the ocean. If I pull towards me, and into the boat, then I am essentially using the fairlead as a pulley which seems kind of iffy.

Let me know if I have inadequately described anything, and as always, thanks so much for the info.

 

[topcat0399]

A picture is worth a thousand words....

 

[judsonj]

A picture is worth a thousand words....

Alas, in my case a picture is worth about 1.5 hours of driving time. I know my previous post was a bit long for some but if anyone is willing to muddle through it and compare what I am seeing with their Mac 22 I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[Freedom77]

So I took a final look at the boat. We stepped the mast, raised the sails (they look good), started the motor (first pull) and rigged the mainsheet.

I have two questions. The mast seems pretty straight forward but the boom on either end seemed a little flimsy. Now, obviously this is just a day sailer, but the connection to the mast, where the boom is allowed to roll by loosening a wing nut seemed a little dicey but tolerable. Has anyone heard of a failure at this connection point? My bigger issue is with the other end of the boom where the mainsheet double block is attached. Forgive me this clumsy description but I will try my best to describe what the problem is and maybe you can tell me if it is supposed to be like that or if it can be fixed or neither. At the aft end of the boom there is a plate that appears to be riveted to the butt end of the boom. A bolt passes into this plate and secures the hanger for the mainsheet block. The bolt is really loose. The head of the bolt can loosely travel a half inch in and out. Once pulled out it seems to securely stop but the whole thing seems funny to me. Perhaps a bigger problem is that I cannot pull the plate off and secure the bolt better because it is riveted. How do I get in there?!

My second question is about rigging the mainsheet. We did what I have seen google images of and read in the retyped manual I found online. Fix to the cleat on the port side, pass through boom block to the standup block on the starboard side, then back through the boom block to a swiveling fairlead and cam cleat. My issue is with this last bit. If I have done this right, then when I trim sail (especially on a port tack) I will be drawing line through this cleat and right into the ocean. If I pull towards me, and into the boat, then I am essentially using the fairlead as a pulley which seems kind of iffy.

Let me know if I have inadequately described anything, and as always, thanks so much for the info.

OKAY. Where the boom attaches to the mast is a cheapo factory roller reefing setup. FUGETABOUTIT. It is a pain in the ... Buy the time you want to roller reef it's usually to late and main sail shape sucks. Put a bolt through the tang and leave it. Take the main to a good sailmaker, I'm sure Seattle has a few, and have double reef points installed. Then get a copy of Sail Power by Wallace Ross and rig a reefing system. Not to much $$$. Or find another book on rigging???

As far as the boom goes, what you have is pretty much a factory setup. The cast aluminum "cap" at the end can be removed by drilling out the pop rivets. Then you can tap for a couple/three of 10-24's. Inside the boom cap should be a locking nut which can be tightened. Don't tighten to much or you will gouge the cap.

I recommend a mid boom mainsheet system and abandon the stern setup altogether. It's easier to reach, trim and shape the main. Improved performance a bunch. I did the same on Freedom. Hope this helps. Fair Winds and Full Sails...Old Salt

 

[judsonj]

Thanks for the useful input. I am a bit of a tinkerer so I get oddly excited for all these little improvements you mention. If you don't mind, I have a few questions and thoughts.

Take the main to a good sailmaker, I'm sure Seattle has a few, and have double reef points installed. Then get a copy of Sail Power by Wallace Ross

Love this idea, I am so much more comfortable with reefing a sail than this roller idea. Regarding the Wallace Ross book, sounds good. I can't read about sailing too much, but is it not overkill for a boat that has no vang, cunningham or easy back stay adjustment?

The cast aluminum "cap" at the end can be removed by drilling out the pop rivets. Then you can tap for a couple/three of 10-24's.

Sounds good. I was hoping there was another way but this will give me a chance to use my tap set.

I recommend a mid boom mainsheet system and abandon the stern setup altogether.

Interesting idea. I am no fan of the current set up. So the system you are using is forward of the tiller or v-shaped and over the tiller just forward of the stern? Did you build it yourself? Do you lose a lot of cockpit space?

Really appreciate the advice.

 

[Freedom77]

Bought a standard Lewmar track and traveler setup. Four to one block and tackle with cam cleat. You can find similar on line or go to local marine hardware. $$$$ ON our V-222 and V-25 I mounted the traveler for the main sheet in the cockpit right at the entrance to the cabin. I ALWAYS back up any new deck hardware with aluminum plate. I don't know the configuration of the Mac 22. When not in use I stowed the blocks and mainsheet. Used a six legged bale, 90 degrees to the deck. on the boom for strength once again tapping and using stainless 10-24 screws. Easier to handle, gets all the junk out of the stern area. Hope you get the idea. Sorry, Don't have pics. Maybe someone in the marina has a similar setup.

 

[topcat0399]

We also changed our Venture from end boom sheeting to mid boom.
Like it much better. Like anything there are some downsides.

I have a traveler but its not installed yet.
For the moment I just put a strong U-bolt thru the bridge deck and
connected the main block to it. Works ok.
It will be much better once the traveler is installed which has to wait
until we get a new main sail.

Nothing stopping you from rigging a Vang, an adjustable back-stay,
or installing a cunning ham if thats what your heart desires.

 

[judsonj]

Hey all! I did decide to pull the trigger on the boat. I am excited for the pop top, quality engine and the option to sleep on board for short weekend trips. I really appreciate all the help and advice. Now I just need to prioritize what projects to undertake first.

 

[topcat0399]

congrats

Start with killing off topside leaks. Its a Venture so don't even tell me you don't have any...

 

[Doc_holiday]

I say splash it. Save that stuff for winter

 

[topcat0399]

I say splash it. Save that stuff for winter

by all means - that first.